Flintoff was 'drunk' at practice

"and a coach who either needed shooting or institutionalising"

You forgot a small mention for Piles and the Bellhop ...

To me, Flintoff tried his hardest in every game - he was still crippled IMO when bowling. His batting was timid because he was wanting it too much. He suffered greatly over that series.

Not surprised he was getting tanked really, he is a Saxon lad.

However, if he wanted the captaincy so much he should've realised that it's just not on to do it to the extent he did.

Fact is, Graveney is an absolute forking count. A loathesome vile little worm, a snivelling little sh!t and Flintstein shouldn't have had a sniff of the captaincy - everyone knew it.... there was quite a split amongst the English here, however.

I was well in the Strauss camp, for the fact he captained very well... had been the man in charge, basically batted in a better manner and Flintoff needed no more responsibility and needed not to judge when to bring himself on - seeming as it is/was our best weapon.

But there we go, Flintoff foolishly took it, foolishly didn't set a good example and foolishly wanted his gorb mate in the team.

To me, Flintoff tried his hardest in every game

Including those silly drinking games

Henry wrote:The great Garry Sobers made test centuries whilst pissed. Give Fred a break. It's irresponsible of him, but I would have been driven to the bottle myself if I had to be Harmi's captain.

Trev, I can't help but wonder what you'd be saying if it was Warne or Ponting being accused of such behaviour...

Zat wrote:

Henry wrote:The great Garry Sobers made test centuries whilst pissed. Give Fred a break. It's irresponsible of him, but I would have been driven to the bottle myself if I had to be Harmi's captain.

Trev, I can't help but wonder what you'd be saying if it was Warne or Ponting being accused of such behaviour...

True. And anyway, it's ridiculous to make comparisons of modern players with the way cricketers of 40 years ago behaved. It's self-evident that the game is much more professional now. Rugby teams used to get absolutely plastered the night before a game as well. No-one would suggest they could still get away with that, they'd get annihilated.

Not sure if it's been mentioned elesewhere on this thread/forum but can't find any reference to Fletcher's quote about making him captain because he was afraid that otherwise he'd go right off the wagon and possibly drag Harmison down with him. I'd just like to on record and say this 'woah there, hang on a sec, this is one the maddest things I've ever heard said in relation to the English cricket team'. Not really much I can add to that.

But I will...generally though Fletch ruled the roost in his latter years when it came to selection and captaincy (Graveney continued in his role as strangely hued metaphorical eunich) and lets face it he just went loopy as all those in positions of appreciable power eventually do and is now spitting out venom like an incontinent cobra.

Flintoff, booze, the last Ashes and world cup were all patently his mistakes and it's all the more obvious with these latest 'revelations'.

Oh and one more thing- apparently Freddy got a sozzled on that occasion in the company of Ian Botham. Think our knight of the realm would have had an inkling that taking Freddy out on a bender a couple of days before a big match wouldn't be much help to England. It's bad enough having to suffer his brain deadening commentary without him knobbling England's finest. Tw*t.

"Flintoff, booze, the last Ashes and world cup were all patently his mistakes and it's all the more obvious with these latest 'revelations'."

So I gather from that one comment what you are implying is that everything was ALL Feltch's and/or Gravey's fault ?!

It follows then that you also condone the actions of an immature 29 year old captain of England who acted like a prize irresponsible git - and all because it was Fletchers a/o Graveney's fault.

And it further follows that for him to shed light on it, albeit for coin, is again, Fletchers a/o Graveney's fault.

Poor hard-done-by Freddie ... the whole world is up in arms because he's been exposed by the ex coach of being what everyone knew all along - a great cricketer but a known piss artist who lacked the responsibility and nouse to set a good example to his team mates. A much maligned Jack The Lad ... who looked after his mates (Piles and Jones come to mind) ...

Get real Tom ... the buck has to stop somewhere ... and Flintoff, whether he likes it or not, has to shoulder a shed load of blame.
One good thing might comeof this expose though - he won't ever be considered for the England captaincy again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Graveney - he is an absolute plonker and I think we're all agreed on that - but apportioning blame to others because your captain is a sot who lacks basic common sense off the field ain't exactly cricket is it?

I take your general point that Freddy bears some responsibility here.

I know it sounds a bit patronising though - I'm sure he's a fine player and probably a genial drinking buddy- but he's strictly one of the ranks. Should never have been near the captaincy - esp. not when it came to the Ashes when there was a viable alternative. Whether he likes it or need he needs direction from other people otherwise he gets fat & drunk or bowls himself to point of chronic of injury.

Fletcher and no-one else really made him captain. This was partially because he bizarrely feared he'd become a contagious drunk and he wasn't convinced of any of his merits either. Fletcher wasn't the coach, he was the team supremo. He made one very bad decision in giving him the captaincy, the logic for which was just plain worrying. He's laying it all on Flintoff when he was ultimately decision-maker and he made an obviously flawed decision.

My beef is Fletcher at no point has said 'I hold my hands up to say I am at least partially to blame for various debacles'. It's not just Flintoff, it was team selection and tactics and no admission of responsibility that I can recall. What was he getting paid for?

Oh and I am effectively saying Freddy is a big retarded child who shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.

Eric Air Emu wrote:Not sure if it's been mentioned elesewhere on this thread/forum but can't find any reference to Fletcher's quote about making him captain because he was afraid that otherwise he'd go right off the wagon and possibly drag Harmison down with him.

Read the link in post #1.

Zat wrote:

Henry wrote:The great Garry Sobers made test centuries whilst pissed. Give Fred a break. It's irresponsible of him, but I would have been driven to the bottle myself if I had to be Harmi's captain.

Trev, I can't help but wonder what you'd be saying if it was Warne or Ponting being accused of such behaviour...

Wel that's your problem, isnt it.

Fact is, when Ponting and Symonds have been out on the piss, they've tended to cause unsavoury incidents, like Ponting's behaviour leading to him getting whacked by a bouncer, and Symonds getting into a scuffle in a South African night club. Fred was a complete fool and should have been stripped of the captaincy because he went too far, but he's not a violent drunk, it would seem.

But you are a hypocritical dickhead with double standards, it would seem.

Well for all the shit ponting gets you have to admit he was man enough to admit he was an alcoholic, get the help he needed and change his life.

He seems to have become a much better player since he did that.

I said during the pedalo incident flitnoff needed to admit he we an alcoholic if he wanted to save his career.

There are also bigger issues than just sport, the bloke has 2 little kids at home which makes it even more important for him to get his drinking under control.

Zat wrote:But you are a hypocritical dickhead with double standards, it would seem.

No shit, Sherlock.

Roy was santioned when he misbehaved on the last tour of England and appears to have learned from it.

that fred was not sanctioned says heaps about english cricket ...fletch obviously was extremely cross about it but did not have the authority or backbone to make an example of the english captain

Invader Zim wrote:

Zat wrote:But you are a hypocritical dickhead with double standards, it would seem.

No shit, Sherlock.

Get ****** Zimi.

I'll take the forum prize for stating the bleeding obvious any day.

remarkably astute observation from zimi...what a vor

Get ****** horrie.

lol

just shows that all of us are vulnerable to contracting a dose of vor

horace




Joined : 06 Sep 2007
Posts : 601
Location : buried under the ponsford stand

We live in hope.

ROTFLMFAO

I dislike you guys and zimi

Invader Zim wrote:ROTFLMFAO

Better than POTFSYAO as you usually do.