Kevin Pietersen - what's the rumpus?

I haven't been on here much until recently so just out of interest, what's the general diagnosis on his current malaise?

Seems to me that this can no longer be classed as a dip in form and is a serious problem. 

Have his eyes gone? Has he lost the hunger? Does he think he's proved himself? Is he just rusty from a lack of decent cricket? 

Surely no-one could ever accuse Pietersen of not caring or not working hard on his game? Is it extra-curricular? Are there distractions? What's going on?

It just seems sad. KP of old would have made mincemeat of this mediocre Australian attack wouldn't he? Shouldn't he be filling his boots? He should be in his prime and this should be his series but instead his average is slowly sliding.

Perhaps he simply peaked quite early and is no longer heading for the greatness that seemed to be his destiny.

Also, what are the solutions? Does he need to reign in his game the same way Tendulkar did in the second half of his career? Or does he need to do the opposite and flay the hell out of everything and bash his way into form? Didn't work for Hayden, kind of worked for Sehwag.

What are peoples' thoughts? I can't see him never regaining his form of old but surely something has to give?

Having said all this, he'll probably re-find his form in a series as long as the Ashes and end up being our best batsman. I wouldn't be surprised. With the attack he's facing, the notorious flatness of Aussie decks and the sheer match practice he will get, the stars seemed to have aligned to help Pietersen out. It's now or never.

And before some idiot says - "we're one innings in, he scored 43 and this is how you react?", this has nothing to do with last night. It's a question about the last couple of years of Pietersen's career.

The South African has become an Englishman. He learned to play cricket and became a cricketer, whereas in England you become a cricketer first - actually playing cricket, whilst preferable, has never been necessary to the job description. He's discovered the shakiness of an Alastair Cook, the shuffling ugliness of a Collingwood, the feeble-eyed fear of an Ian Bell, the far from heartfelt, hopeful swing of a Prior. I guess you can't expect a sane man in a madhouse to take forever over becoming a lunatic.

Damned by association? Cricketing osmosis? An interesting theory. Is English cricket so rotten that it sucks the talent from anybody in it?!

Perhaps KP isn't the all-singing, all-dancing world beater we believed him to be - and now he's come back to the field.

Alright Bas. How can he come back to the field if he wasn't that great in the first place?

Seem to be two separate suggestions. He either wasn't that great or he's lost it. I would reject the first point. Everyone saw how good he was. We can't all be wrong. It's all there in the videos and stats.

Whether he's lost it is a different question. Why do you think that's happened Basil? Eyes? Confidence? ADHD? Crack?

Who was the idiot that had him in their all time England eleven?

Was it Beefy?

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:I haven't been on here much until recently so just out of interest, what's the general diagnosis on his current malaise?

Seems to me that this can no longer be classed as a dip in form and is a serious problem. 

Have his eyes gone? Has he lost the hunger? Does he think he's proved himself? Is he just rusty from a lack of decent cricket? 

Surely no-one could ever accuse Pietersen of not caring or not working hard on his game? Is it extra-curricular? Are there distractions? What's going on?

It just seems sad. KP of old would have made mincemeat of this mediocre Australian attack wouldn't he? Shouldn't he be filling his boots? He should be in his prime and this should be his series but instead his average is slowly sliding.

Perhaps he simply peaked quite early and is no longer heading for the greatness that seemed to be his destiny.

Also, what are the solutions? Does he need to reign in his game the same way Tendulkar did in the second half of his career? Or does he need to do the opposite and flay the hell out of everything and bash his way into form? Didn't work for Hayden, kind of worked for Sehwag.

What are peoples' thoughts? I can't see him never regaining his form of old but surely something has to give?

Having said all this, he'll probably re-find his form in a series as long as the Ashes and end up being our best batsman. I wouldn't be surprised. With the attack he's facing, the notorious flatness of Aussie decks and the sheer match practice he will get, the stars seemed to have aligned to help Pietersen out. It's now or never.

Its a dip, but partly understandable when you consider the injuries that have surrounded him. In 2009 he was injured for the Ashes and struggling to recover for South Africa. Against Bangladesh he performed reasonably, and in early 2010 was Player of the Tournament in the T20 World Cup. So his bad form, aside from the 2 achilles plagued series was just the 4 Tests vs Pakistan, 6 innings at an average of 23. Not good but played against quality swing bowlers in overcast conditions.

Watching him today he still looked a class apart from most of our batsmen. He'll get runs this series - he's fit now, his eyes are still good and I think the hunger is still there. He should continue to play his shots and dominate, he shouldn't worry about the issues Hayden / Tendy faced until he's 33 / 34.

The Australian attack isn't as mediocre as some people suggest, Siddle bowled damn well today. Seam movement at 85mph+ on a good length is never easy to bat against. On this form Siddle would be better than bowlers like Reiffel, Lee and Bichel who played in some of those quality Australian sides.

I'm confident Pietersen will score heavily in this series.

Perhaps he was just a good player who enjoyed the purplest of purple patches. It's getting harder for him because international bowlers have seen everything he has to offer and have adjusted their tactics accordingly - there is markedly less straight bowling at KP which he can whip away through the leg side to his heart's content.

His confidence must have taken a hit when he lost the captaincy, although I refuse to believe that is still a factor in his malaise.

good question from LLL...personally I do not think we have yet to see the best of KP..am confident he will prove to be a decisive factor in this series

If he was never really that good, he did a pretty good job of making some all-time great bowlers look like his bitch for three years. And it wasn't just that he dominated them, it was how he dominated them. It was like he wanted to kill them, then kill their whole families, then shove his bat down their throat and ask them who the frak they thought they were for having the audacity to bowl to him. The guy was a knob and everybody knew it, he was just this punk who every now and again went out to bat. Nowadays, he looks like an 80s porn-star, gay moustache and all, and he doesn't scare anybody. He doesn't want to murderate anyone and secretly, he doesn't even seem to have the inclination.

Paul Keating wrote:Who was the idiot that had him in their all time England eleven?

Was it Beefy?

Cricinfo.

Though I got one of those stocking filler 'Greatest England XI' DVD's one Xmas, and an 'expert' panel of Chris Cowdrey, Alec Stewart and Jack Bannister picked Steve Harmison in the greatest ever England XI. He's 32 years old and he can't even get in the current England XVI FFS!

Paul Keating wrote:Who was the idiot that had him in their all time England eleven?

Was it Beefy?

Whatever Ponts! He's still the best English batsman of the last godknowshowmanyyears. 30? Maybe even 40?

Basil wrote:Perhaps he was just a good player who enjoyed the purplest of purple patches. It's getting harder for him because international bowlers have seen everything he has to offer and have adjusted their tactics accordingly - there is markedly less straight bowling at KP which he can whip away through the leg side to his heart's content.

His confidence must have taken a hit when he lost the captaincy, although I refuse to believe that is still a factor in his malaise.

I don't think anyone has really worked him out. Fast medium swing bowlers like Amir and Asif have troubled his technique a little, but I still don't see many weaknesses in his game.

While we're at it, the media's latest left arm spinner thing is a misnomer - 4 of the 8 Test teams he's regularly have a first choice left arm spinner. If you play 60+ Tests you're going to get out to them occasionally. Paul Collingwood played the same bowlers and got a higher proportion of SLA dismissals - no-one is claiming he has a weakness against them.

That's because Collingwood has a weakness against everything and everyone.

Chivalry Augustus wrote:Nowadays, he looks like an 80s porn-star, gay moustache and all, and he doesn't scare anybody. He doesn't want to murderate anyone and secretly, he doesn't even seem to have the inclination.

Not sure if this is a genuine lookalike or a symptom of my disturbed mind:


Peter Mandelson


Kevin Pietersen


Any takers?

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:

Paul Keating wrote:Who was the idiot that had him in their all time England eleven?

Was it Beefy?

Whatever Ponts! He's still the best English batsman of the last godknowshowmanyyears. 30? Maybe even 40?

so he's the best of a bad lot in the past forty years? So!

Doesn't mean he's all time material.

By the way Gooch and Gower have as good claims as KP.

T20 and Bangladesh, Gary? Clutching. At. Straws.

We're talking big boy's cricket. When's the last time he had a really good Test series?

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:T20 and Bangladesh, Gary? Clutching. At. Straws.

We're talking big boy's cricket. When's the last time he had a really good Test series?

He had 3 in a row in 2008-09 - South Africa (home), India (away), West Indies (away).

Then he was injured for the next two, did well against Bangladesh (which doesn't count). So we're only really talking one home series against Pakistan - 6 innings against Amir and Asif bending it round corners.

Big deal. He'll come good.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:

Paul Keating wrote:Who was the idiot that had him in their all time England eleven?

Was it Beefy?

Whatever Ponts! He's still the best English batsman of the last godknowshowmanyyears. 30? Maybe even 40?

phurt...he is not up to the incomparable Peter Parfitt

Basil wrote:Perhaps he was just a good player who enjoyed the purplest of purple patches. It's getting harder for him because international bowlers have seen everything he has to offer and have adjusted their tactics accordingly - there is markedly less straight bowling at KP which he can whip away through the leg side to his heart's content.

His confidence must have taken a hit when he lost the captaincy, although I refuse to believe that is still a factor in his malaise.

Yeah bowlers have figured him out a bit. Put in a couple of mid wickets and get the mid on in close and keep bowling full and straight at him and he'll miss one eventually or nick off to slip like yesterday.

It also seems to have been the case of late that the first time he plays a false shot in his innings, he gets out. Needs a bit of luck to go his way....

Henry wrote:

Basil wrote:Perhaps he was just a good player who enjoyed the purplest of purple patches. It's getting harder for him because international bowlers have seen everything he has to offer and have adjusted their tactics accordingly - there is markedly less straight bowling at KP which he can whip away through the leg side to his heart's content.

His confidence must have taken a hit when he lost the captaincy, although I refuse to believe that is still a factor in his malaise.

Yeah bowlers have figured him out a bit. Put in a couple of mid wickets and get the mid on in close and keep bowling full and straight at him and he'll miss one eventually or nick off to slip like yesterday.

It also seems to have been the case of late that the first time he plays a false shot in his innings, he gets out. Needs a bit of luck to go his way....

like Mr Snicket all KP needs is Akmal behind the stumps

Paul Keating wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:

Paul Keating wrote:Who was the idiot that had him in their all time England eleven?

Was it Beefy?

Whatever Ponts! He's still the best English batsman of the last godknowshowmanyyears. 30? Maybe even 40?

so he's the best of a bad lot in the past forty years? So!

Doesn't mean he's all time material.

By the way Gooch and Gower have as good claims as KP.

He wouldn't be in my all time side, Ponts. But picking the best/one of the best English batsman in nearly half a century hardly makes you an idiot.

Besides, he may have been picked because he offers something to an all time England side that no-one else can provide - blistering attack. Maybe Robin Smith or perhaps Compton to a lesser extent are the only otter batsman I can think of who could do the same thing. KP was probably picked for the same reason that Viv is often in all time Windies sides over, say Kanhai and Gilchrist is often picked over others and Hayden over Trumper, etc, etc.

Btw, Gower wasted his talent to the extent that KP > Gower for me. Gooch is a different story.

Gary 111 wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:T20 and Bangladesh, Gary? Clutching. At. Straws.

We're talking big boy's cricket. When's the last time he had a really good Test series?

He had 3 in a row in 2008-09 - South Africa (home), India (away), West Indies (away).

Then he was injured for the next two, did well against Bangladesh (which doesn't count). So we're only really talking one home series against Pakistan - 6 innings against Amir and Asif bending it round corners.

Big deal. He'll come good.

Really? Just had a look. Not including Bangladesh he averaged 23 against Pakistan, 25 against South Africa, 38 in the last Ashes, 25 against the Windies at home.

So his last really good series was in the Windies in 2008 and that was ....the Windies. In other words god awful a lot of the time.

These aren't the results of a great batsman, which we know KP could be. And this is a clear and sustained fall from grace, not a short dip in form. Aye, injuries don't help but it's not good reading is it?

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:T20 and Bangladesh, Gary? Clutching. At. Straws.

We're talking big boy's cricket. When's the last time he had a really good Test series?

He had 3 in a row in 2008-09 - South Africa (home), India (away), West Indies (away).

Then he was injured for the next two, did well against Bangladesh (which doesn't count). So we're only really talking one home series against Pakistan - 6 innings against Amir and Asif bending it round corners.

Big deal. He'll come good.

Really? Just had a look. Not including Bangladesh he averaged 23 against Pakistan, 25 against South Africa, 38 in the last Ashes, 25 against the Windies at home.

So his last really good series was in the Windies in 2008 and that was ....the Windies. In other words god awful a lot of the time.

These aren't the results of a great batsman, which we know KP could be. And this is a clear and sustained fall from grace, not a short dip in form. Aye, injuries don't help but it's not good reading is it?

Yes, he struggled against Aus & SA, but he was injured against Aus (and still close to 40 despite this), and very rusty in SA. So you've got Pakistan - 6 innings. 6 poor innings, but it was a bowlers summer - he looked good to me yesterday.