Ponting's career - in three parts
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Zat
Hass
Paul Keating
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Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
Actually Lara also batted well as captain.
taipan- Number of posts : 48416
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
crunching the numbers for some of the prolific batsmen of recent vintage i get (for 50 test spans)
tendulkar (1997-2002) - ave 66.15, 20 100s
dravid (2002-2006) - ave 66.57, 14 100s
kallis (2001-2005) - ave 69.23, 15 100s
yousuf (2000-2006) - ave 67.67, 20 100s
sanga (2005-2010) - ave 64.58, 17 100s
ricky had a better run than all of them. though some of them had longer runs in terms of years due to less tests a year
stats links below:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;spanmax1=01+Dec+2002;spanmin1=01+Aug+1997;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28114.html?class=1;spanmax1=01+Dec+2006;spanmin1=28+Feb+2002;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;spanmax1=01+Oct+2005;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43650.html?class=1;spanmax2=31+Dec+2006;spanmin2=28+Jun+2000;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/50710.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;spanmin1=01+Jan+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
tendulkar (1997-2002) - ave 66.15, 20 100s
dravid (2002-2006) - ave 66.57, 14 100s
kallis (2001-2005) - ave 69.23, 15 100s
yousuf (2000-2006) - ave 67.67, 20 100s
sanga (2005-2010) - ave 64.58, 17 100s
ricky had a better run than all of them. though some of them had longer runs in terms of years due to less tests a year
stats links below:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;spanmax1=01+Dec+2002;spanmin1=01+Aug+1997;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28114.html?class=1;spanmax1=01+Dec+2006;spanmin1=28+Feb+2002;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;spanmax1=01+Oct+2005;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43650.html?class=1;spanmax2=31+Dec+2006;spanmin2=28+Jun+2000;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/50710.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;spanmin1=01+Jan+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
The One- Number of posts : 9035
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
What does Mahela average since the start of 2006?
Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
If you don't know something then stay away from it.taipan wrote:SG wrote:Both are probably on same keel as far as leadership nous is concerned.taipan wrote:SG wrote:IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Except Tendulkar got sacked as captain.
But at Ponting did the job without losing form.
Tendulkar got sacked because his form went to crap. Obviously not mentally tough enough.
Tendulkar's overall average as skipper is very healthy 51+. And when you see he led India in some of the toughest series one can get. Aus (once), SA (twice), WI (once), you'll probably know why his captaincy record sucks so bad.
In the 2 years he led India, he averaged 62 and 68 in '97 and '99 respectively.
SG- Number of posts : 12806
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
I can't believe you got sucked in by that one, SG.
Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
Yep, what fine job he is doing!!! Hasn't led Aus to a series win for close to an year now. And that too without losing his form?But at Ponting did the job without losing form.
To average close to 36 over a period of 3 years isn't losing your form in your books?
SG- Number of posts : 12806
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
So his/her posts are to be not to be taken at their face value?
OK, I learned my lesson. Will be more careful in future.
OK, I learned my lesson. Will be more careful in future.
SG- Number of posts : 12806
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
SG wrote:If you don't know something then stay away from it.taipan wrote:SG wrote:Both are probably on same keel as far as leadership nous is concerned.taipan wrote:SG wrote:IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Except Tendulkar got sacked as captain.
But at Ponting did the job without losing form.
Tendulkar got sacked because his form went to crap. Obviously not mentally tough enough.
Tendulkar's overall average as skipper is very healthy 51+. And when you see he led India in some of the toughest series one can get. Aus (once), SA (twice), WI (once), you'll probably know why his captaincy record sucks so bad.
In the 2 years he led India, he averaged 62 and 68 in '97 and '99 respectively.
Had to go look did you?
And obviously in '98 he averaged SFA.
taipan- Number of posts : 48416
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
SG wrote:Yep, what fine job he is doing!!! Hasn't led Aus to a series win for close to an year now. And that too without losing his form?But at Ponting did the job without losing form.
To average close to 36 over a period of 3 years isn't losing your form in your books?
Has been captain for well over 3 years
taipan- Number of posts : 48416
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
Henry wrote:What does Mahela average since the start of 2006?
mahela (2005-2010) - ave 60.62, 16 100s
hayden (2001-2004) - ave 63.01, 19 100s
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/49289.html?class=1;spanmax1=30+Nov+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/5616.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+2004;spanmin1=01+Feb+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
The One- Number of posts : 9035
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
taipan wrote:And obviously in '98 he averaged SFA.
a terrible 81. and he wasnt captain
you love being the clueless troll dont you?
The One- Number of posts : 9035
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
Hussey 2005-2008 was averaging 65. A lot of not outs batting at number six, though.
Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
SG wrote:If you don't know something then stay away from it.taipan wrote:SG wrote:Both are probably on same keel as far as leadership nous is concerned.taipan wrote:SG wrote:IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Except Tendulkar got sacked as captain.
But at Ponting did the job without losing form.
Tendulkar got sacked because his form went to crap. Obviously not mentally tough enough.
Tendulkar's overall average as skipper is very healthy 51+. And when you see he led India in some of the toughest series one can get. Aus (once), SA (twice), WI (once), you'll probably know why his captaincy record sucks so bad.
In the 2 years he led India, he averaged 62 and 68 in '97 and '99 respectively.
Was trusting your stats. According to you he led India for 2 years, 97 and 99 and averaged 62 and 68. But then again you say he only averaged 51 as captain.
taipan- Number of posts : 48416
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
Steve Waugh probably would have had a 50 test run averaging 60ish.
I think from the Headingley Test in 1993 where he had that massive partnership with AB, until the end of the terrific West Indies tour of 1999, Waugh played 60 tests and averged 63 - all against the likes of Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Pollock, Gough, Caddick and Fraser, to name a few.
I think from the Headingley Test in 1993 where he had that massive partnership with AB, until the end of the terrific West Indies tour of 1999, Waugh played 60 tests and averged 63 - all against the likes of Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Pollock, Gough, Caddick and Fraser, to name a few.
JGK- Number of posts : 41790
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Those were the 2 years in which he led India in 17/25 tests. Of course, he led India in '96 and '00 for his remaining 8 tests.
SG- Number of posts : 12806
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
For players of the last 20 years, I think it's-
SRT>BCL>Sanga>Kallis>Ponting.
SRT>BCL>Sanga>Kallis>Ponting.
Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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I hate the guy, but he's better than Sanga and Kallis, and Dravid is atleast equal with them.
doremi- Number of posts : 9743
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
There's no way that Kallis a better batsman than Ponting. I'd have him equal with Dravid.
I'm still making my mind up about Sanga. Since he gave up keeping he has been extraordinary although that has also coincided with the weakest ever period for world bowling and Sanga didn't even have to face one of the few good ones. And he's only played 3 tests against Aus and SAf combined in 6 years (although these days not playing Aust is a disadvantage).
I'm still making my mind up about Sanga. Since he gave up keeping he has been extraordinary although that has also coincided with the weakest ever period for world bowling and Sanga didn't even have to face one of the few good ones. And he's only played 3 tests against Aus and SAf combined in 6 years (although these days not playing Aust is a disadvantage).
JGK- Number of posts : 41790
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
BCL >SRT > Punter > Kallis > KP
Merlin- Number of posts : 14718
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
Sanga is class, I have absolutely no doubt about that. He'd average 50 in any era, he's that good. Just unfortunate that he can't test himself against bowlers who are as good as he is a batsman. Dravid fits in between Ponting and Sanga/Kallis/Hayden.
IMO Sehwag may over-take all of the above. Depends on the next couple of years.
IMO Sehwag may over-take all of the above. Depends on the next couple of years.
doremi- Number of posts : 9743
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JGK wrote:There's no way that Kallis a better batsman than Ponting. I'd have him equal with Dravid.
I'm still making my mind up about Sanga. Since he gave up keeping he has been extraordinary although that has also coincided with the weakest ever period for world bowling and Sanga didn't even have to face one of the few good ones. And he's only played 3 tests against Aus and SAf combined in 6 years (although these days not playing Aust is a disadvantage).
And yet in the period where Sanga has averaged 60 against supposedly poor bowling, Ponting has averaged 42.
I know that a lot of Aussies don't rate Kallis because there's a perception that he scores too slowly, but that hasn't been true for the last 5 years. Kallis has been scoring his runs as quickly as SRT, Sanga, and Hussey in recent times.
KP? On his day there is no one better. But yesterday was his first 'day' for almost two years- Needs to be more consistent.
I'd throw Sehwag into the mix as well. Purists don't like him, but he's more consistent than people think, scores his runs at a frightening pace, and has made hundreds in every test playing country (I think?). Maybe not the Windies, because I don't think he was in the Indian side the last time India went there.
Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
KP and Sehwag fall into the same category.
Mercurial.
When on song - brilliant, fast scoring, totally dominant to the point of disdain for the bowlng ...
When not - ugly.
Mercurial.
When on song - brilliant, fast scoring, totally dominant to the point of disdain for the bowlng ...
When not - ugly.
Merlin- Number of posts : 14718
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Sehwag was there on India's last tour to WI in '06 and he did score a ton (180) there.
As for scoring tons in each test playing nation, he is yet to register a ton in B'desh, Zim and NZ despite playing 11 tests there.
As for scoring tons in each test playing nation, he is yet to register a ton in B'desh, Zim and NZ despite playing 11 tests there.
SG- Number of posts : 12806
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
In 90 test matches from the start of 1999 until the start of 2008, Kallis averaged 65.06 with 27 centuries. Phenomenal.
That's nine years of the highest quality batting when Ponting could only manage five years of that kind of level. If that had been Kallis's entire career, it would be hard to argue that he shouldn't be considered the next best ever after Bradman.
He had a bit of a dip in form in 2008 and 2009, but he's averaging over 70 again this year.
Kallis also suffers statistically because he had a woeful start to his test career. He was averaging 20 after his first 10 tests.
That's nine years of the highest quality batting when Ponting could only manage five years of that kind of level. If that had been Kallis's entire career, it would be hard to argue that he shouldn't be considered the next best ever after Bradman.
He had a bit of a dip in form in 2008 and 2009, but he's averaging over 70 again this year.
Kallis also suffers statistically because he had a woeful start to his test career. He was averaging 20 after his first 10 tests.
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