Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (II)

[JGK]

Climate scientists don't agree that the science is settled. Just like not all doctors agree that smoking causes cancer.

Still, a lot of smart people who seem to know what they are talking about agree that climate change is real and is in part caused by people and if they are right the consequences are unimaginably bad. Seems like a bit of a punt to ignore those smart people just because it isn't 100% "settled".

[Zat]

Let's let folk freeze to death because they can't afford to heat their home

Sorry, what's so bad about that? With any luck, horrie will be one of the frozen ones.

[JGK]

It's probably also worth adding that the official position of the Coalition is also that climate change is real and is in part caused by humans.

The only thing that seems to be debated here is how best to deal with it which is fundamentally an economic question. And as far as I can tell, just about no economist supports the Coalition's "dart board" approach.

[horace]

hehehe...an interesting debate re taxation...Australians vastly over invest in housing - spending oxorbidant shares of GDP...eventually we will have a dreadful market correction and many will be left in negative equity

we would be far better off investing surplus capital in more productive shares of the economy than housing...

oh thanx for the promotions to Chair...not interested ...am more interested in a far more humble role heading Taxation and Internal Security (also with particular responsibiity for reform of Cricket Australia)

[skully]

Let's let folk freeze to death because they can't afford to heat their home

Sorry, what's so bad about that? With any luck, horrie will be one of the frozen ones.

Touche.

[horace]

Let's let folk freeze to death because they can't afford to heat their home

Sorry, what's so bad about that? With any luck, horrie will be one of the frozen ones.

oh please....who needs a heater Z when one is fired with reforming zeal

[skully]

Climate scientists don't agree that the science is settled. Just like not all doctors agree that smoking causes cancer.

Still, a lot of smart people who seem to know what they are talking about agree that climate change is real and is in part caused by people and if they are right the consequences are unimaginably bad. Seems like a bit of a punt to ignore those smart people just because it isn't 100% "settled".

Seems like a massive punt to introduce a tax that you said you wouldn't that will make fark all difference to World CO² production.

[skully]

It's probably also worth adding that the official position of the Coalition is also that climate change is real and is in part caused by humans.

The only thing that seems to be debated here is how best to deal with it which is fundamentally an economic question. And as far as I can tell, just about no economist supports the Coalition's "dart board" approach.

And at last count 86% of Australians don't support the Vulture's approach.

[horace]

As Commissar.....erm Head of Internal security I'd be finding room in some of those nice refugee camps as we will need some nice facilities for thosse heading the queu for re-education....step up mad monk, gillard, brown and hilditch - form an orderly line

[embee]

JGK

Who said there's only two alternatives?

Abbott is a farqnut ...and his plan is so shocking that it wouldnt get close to legislation

but the Green ALP plan is just window dressing ...it wont actually do anything except make people "feel good" that they are helping the enviroment by paying more for electricity and a few other things so the govt can compensate them ....and the polluters will just pass on the costs to the consumers , knowing they are getting handouts to pay the extra

The system that Oz adopts has to able to be implementable world wide as most countries dont have the welfare system/ideology that Australia does

[JGK]

Climate scientists don't agree that the science is settled. Just like not all doctors agree that smoking causes cancer.

Still, a lot of smart people who seem to know what they are talking about agree that climate change is real and is in part caused by people and if they are right the consequences are unimaginably bad. Seems like a bit of a punt to ignore those smart people just because it isn't 100% "settled".

Seems like a massive punt to introduce a tax that you said you wouldn't that will make fark all difference to World CO² production.

That's a separate issue. By introducing the regime earlier than the bigger economies, we are setting ourselves up to be leaders in how to deal with it when it becomes standard practice around the world to put a price on carbon. To be fair, it is all a bit big picture and macro for the average Daily Telelgraph reader to get their heads around while they are obsessing over having to give up a beer or two a week to pay for it all.

[skully]

Climate scientists don't agree that the science is settled. Just like not all doctors agree that smoking causes cancer.

Still, a lot of smart people who seem to know what they are talking about agree that climate change is real and is in part caused by people and if they are right the consequences are unimaginably bad. Seems like a bit of a punt to ignore those smart people just because it isn't 100% "settled".

Seems like a massive punt to introduce a tax that you said you wouldn't that will make fark all difference to World CO² production.

That's a separate issue. By introducing the regime earlier than the bigger economies, we are setting ourselves up to be leaders in how to deal with it when it becomes standard practice around the world to put a price on carbon. To be fair, it is all a bit big picture and macro for the average Daily Telelgraph reader to get their heads around while they are obsessing over having to give up a beer or two a week to pay for it all.

Er, isn't that your classic pinko battler that the Vulture has begun wearing out shoe leather on behalf of?

The biatch was on the TV at lunch time and had the hide to say "we are doing it the Labor way?" when asked how is it good policy to have a middle income family ($120,000 double income + two kids) being $500 a year worse off? WTF? Screwing middle income earners as well as the handful of rich bastards who are too lazy to set up a trust?

[JGK]

JGK

Who said there's only two alternatives?

Abbott is a farqnut ...and his plan is so shocking that it wouldnt get close to legislation

but the Green ALP plan is just window dressing ...it wont actually do anything except make people "feel good" that they are helping the enviroment by paying more for electricity and a few other things so the govt can compensate them ....and the polluters will just pass on the costs to the consumers , knowing they are getting handouts to pay the extra

The system that Oz adopts has to able to be implementable world wide as most countries dont have the welfare system/ideology that Australia does

We live in a market economy. The whole thing works because of competition. By increasing the cost of inputs which are seen as "bad" you are encouraging people to look for cheaper alternatives which aren't as bad. If people are looking for these alternatives then others will see a market in being able to provide them. Hence capital will be put into finding cheaper and cleaner energy sources as well as finding ways for things to operate on cleaner energy.

The car industry has shown brilliantly over the last decade that where there is a will there is a way. Engineers love to solve problems and in that case the need to meet strict Euro emissions standards resulted in an explosion of technology to reduce emissions and improve economy . Admittedly in that case the will was imposed on them by legislation but since the incentive to create something more efficient existed, you now have big German limousines creating less emissions and barely using as much fuel as an old VW beetle.

What Australia has is a light touch incentive that isn't going to hurt the economy but sets Australian industry and business on a good path to be world leaders on this stuff.

[bodyline]

.....we are setting ourselves up to be leaders in how to deal with it when it becomes standard practice around the world to put a price on carbon......

What rubbish! Al Gore has setup carbon markets around the world to skim a shiteful of cash.

And by the time the US joins - the whole thing will be shown up as the Y2K bug of the 21st century.

[skully]

I assume Ponts will roll in anytime now with his "DENIER" placard.

[skully]

The car industry has shown brilliantly over the last decade that where there is a will there is a way. Engineers love to solve problems and in that case the need to meet strict Euro emissions standards resulted in an explosion of technology to reduce emissions and improve economy . Admittedly in that case the will was imposed on them by legislation but since the incentive to create something more efficient existed, you now have big German limousines creating less emissions and barely using as much fuel as an old VW beetle.

And how are the numbers of Australians employed in the car building industry these days, JGK?

I see the coal industry suffering a similar fate.

[JGK]

The car industry has shown brilliantly over the last decade that where there is a will there is a way. Engineers love to solve problems and in that case the need to meet strict Euro emissions standards resulted in an explosion of technology to reduce emissions and improve economy . Admittedly in that case the will was imposed on them by legislation but since the incentive to create something more efficient existed, you now have big German limousines creating less emissions and barely using as much fuel as an old VW beetle.

And how are the numbers of Australians employed in the car building industry these days, JGK?

Plenty but probably not in the way you think.

[bodyline]

Nice look on the ASX today - farken announcements aplenty with "increased costs - decreased profits" per the carbon tax.

[embee]

Electricity in Woztralia has one supplier ...they have different power sources for electricity ...coal , gas , solar, diesel , wind etc ,...but the consumer has no choice to his source of power ....when demand falls the first sources of power to be shut down are the most "green friendly" ones because they are the "easiest" to shut down and refire

Tell me how lowering demand by raising prices helps the carbon emissions in this scenario?

[skully]

"Plenty". Nice. Not too many quotes from you today JGK, but lots of rhetoric.

[JGK]

Meh, I have shares in SLX and GDY which are killing it. Not sure why BSL is down though given the govt is going to given them $180m over the next few years.

[JGK]

"Plenty". Nice. Not too many quotes from you today JGK, but lots of rhetoric.

Huh?

[skully]

I think it's pretty self-explanatory.

BTW, thread one was started on Feb 18, 2011 and we are now on page 52 of thread two less than 5 months later. Hehehe, noice.

And it sh!ts taips to tears.

[Paul Keating]

MB - tell me why Abbott has the same reduction target by 2020? And tell me how his policy will not hurt the economy.

[embee]

ponts

read the previous page for my thoughts on abbotts policy

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