Steve Waugh: ruthless England setting the standard

Aye, 3 tests. Just needs one team to get a bit of bad luck in good bowling conditions, then a rain effected test to follow and the other side is screwed.

Piss the Windies off and have a five match series

MrPrez wrote:I'm talking about the attack as a whole- Steyn is miles ahead of anyone in the world, Morkel is better than anything you have too (you English haven't seen him for a while, he has recently become someone who is definitely the closest in the world to Steyn's standard). Tsotsobe isn't great but decent enough to back up the first two. Swann is quality, no argument there.

Imran Tahir might close the gap.

But SA did have a whole wankfest 3 match series against the same Indian side and only managed to win 1 match. So they've got something to prove.

Aye, I actually agree with Mr. Prez, I reckon SA's attack is probably better in many conditions, it will be interesting to see. If they play Tahir, they could match us in all departments. I'm not sure they'll be as good as our attack in our conditions, though.

Steyn is better than Jimmy, but i'd have Broad and Morkel on a par, and i'll take Tremlett, Finn, or Bresnan ahead of whoever South Africa's third seamer is. Tsotsobe? Parnell? De Wet? All three are pretty ordinary.

Morkel and Broad have both improved thought the latter was going to be dropped prior to the Indian series wasn't he? With him it depends a lot upon whether he decides to be cerebal in his approach. SA should have been able to beat India at home but India hasn't been able to beat them in the last two clashes on Asian soil and relied on a dustbowl of sorts to tie the series on both occasions.

Henry wrote:Steyn is better than Jimmy, but i'd have Broad and Morkel on a par, and i'll take Tremlett, Finn, or Bresnan ahead of whoever South Africa's third seamer is. Tsotsobe? Parnell? De Wet? All three are pretty ordinary.

Not a chance!

Henry wrote:Steyn is better than Jimmy, but i'd have Broad and Morkel on a par, and i'll take Tremlett, Finn, or Bresnan ahead of whoever South Africa's third seamer is. Tsotsobe? Parnell? De Wet? All three are pretty ordinary.

Broad's had one good series though, really, since Pakistan. Morkel's been low 20's average in the last year-odd. Their 3rd seamer isn't as good (but isn't horrendous at all) and Harris is pure gash. But with Tahir in, who knows.

Brass Monkey wrote:

Henry wrote:Steyn is better than Jimmy, but i'd have Broad and Morkel on a par, and i'll take Tremlett, Finn, or Bresnan ahead of whoever South Africa's third seamer is. Tsotsobe? Parnell? De Wet? All three are pretty ordinary.

Broad's had one good series though, really, since Pakistan. Morkel's been low 20's average in the last year-odd. Their 3rd seamer isn't as good (but isn't horrendous at all) and Harris is pure gash. But with Tahir in, who knows.

Actually had they had a half decent spinner instead of Harris, they almost certainly would have taken the extra wicket to clean up England and in all likelihood would have beaten Indian on their soil. The quicks set it up but Harris was good for nothing more than some prolonged defensive bowling.

Brass Monkey wrote:

Henry wrote:Steyn is better than Jimmy, but i'd have Broad and Morkel on a par, and i'll take Tremlett, Finn, or Bresnan ahead of whoever South Africa's third seamer is. Tsotsobe? Parnell? De Wet? All three are pretty ordinary.

Broad's had one good series though, really, since Pakistan. Morkel's been low 20's average in the last year-odd. Their 3rd seamer isn't as good (but isn't horrendous at all) and Harris is pure gash. But with Tahir in, who knows.

Morkel's last year= Broad's last series? England do play a lot more tests than the Saffies.....

Put it this way, if Broad continues to bowl as well as he did against India, and it's really down to him as banging it into the pitch was purely a mental problem, then he is as good, if not more consistently better than Morkel. Morkel can be very good, but his action needs constant attention, and he can suddenly lose it pretty quickly, ala Harmison.

Meh, Morkel took 49 @ 24 last year, when I've seen him he looks dangerous. It's debatable, but I'd prefer the wickets across the year rather than in a flash, against some sack of sh!t batting line-up like India's.

Sack of sh*t? That batting lineup was generally agreed to be the best in the World prior to this Summer.

Sack. Of. sh!t. As much resolve as celery. Yeah awesome players, if they can bully the conditions - if it was decking, they were crumpling. Bangladesh could be said to have played the moving ball better. India = Dravid + fatted-up, heartless shitwads

Phurt. Did you not see Praveen Kumar bat? Sobers incarnate. Except right handed. And Sobers isn't dead.

Well, anyone could feast off of Swann's buffet counter. I even saw Sree hit one of his dobbers for four.

Praveen Kumar is dead?

Sort of. He's undead.

Brass Monkey wrote:Meh, Morkel took 49 @ 24 last year, when I've seen him he looks dangerous. It's debatable, but I'd prefer the wickets across the year rather than in a flash, against some sack of sh!t batting line-up like India's.

Point taken about "across the year" ... but with Broad, it hasn't exactly been a one-off against India.

He won the Ashes for the Poms in 2009, for example.


You would take Morkel for consistency, but possibly Broad is more of a matchwinner when he is on song (which is precisely the issue: how often is that?)

The problem is, being a potentially lethal cannon seems to have won Broad a (vapid) reputation as The Enforcer ..... which by some string of false logic seems to mean he's expected to do some sort of Bodyline/Holding/Heine/LilianThomson turn. Whereas - as all wise Bailers have pointed out - pitching it up accurately, a mixture of swing and yorkers, is what makes him a handful.


Anyway, it's an academic comparison. Until we have a RoW series again, and someone has to choose. (Which is highly unlikely, barring another great natural disaster. The IPL has claimed all available "best of..." spots with its international rupees)

Don't get me wrong Stewie won us some matches this summer, but it was a long time coming. Plus it wasn't just the short sh!t that was abominable before this series. It was a long time coming that he put performances in and I'd be wary to say he's fixed after one series.

Stuie, surely?

Stewie sounds like Griffin.

That's Cozzy's image in cricket.

Broad bowled very well at Brisbane without getting any rewards. Could have had 3-4 wickets in the Aus first innings. Beat the bat constantly and Michael Clarke didn't fancy facing him at all. Although to be fair, Clarke doesn't fancy facing anyone who bowls over 135kph on a pitch that isn't a complete road.

In recent times, it's really only been those two tests against Sri Lanka where Broad completely lost his way.

PeterCS wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:Meh, Morkel took 49 @ 24 last year, when I've seen him he looks dangerous. It's debatable, but I'd prefer the wickets across the year rather than in a flash, against some sack of sh!t batting line-up like India's.

Point taken about "across the year" ... but with Broad, it hasn't exactly been a one-off against India.

He won the Ashes for the Poms in 2009, for example.


You would take Morkel for consistency, but possibly Broad is more of a matchwinner when he is on song (which is precisely the issue: how often is that?)

The problem is, being a potentially lethal cannon seems to have won Broad a (vapid) reputation as The Enforcer ..... which by some string of false logic seems to mean he's expected to do some sort of Bodyline/Holding/Heine/LilianThomson turn. Whereas - as all wise Bailers have pointed out - pitching it up accurately, a mixture of swing and yorkers, is what makes him a handful.


Anyway, it's an academic comparison. Until we have a RoW series again, and someone has to choose. (Which is highly unlikely, barring another great natural disaster. The IPL has claimed all available "best of..." spots with its international rupees)

Morkel has only started coming consistent in the past year or so. I expect his bowling to deteriorate now we have Allan Donald as bowling coach.

Henry wrote:Broad bowled very well at Brisbane without getting any rewards. Could have had 3-4 wickets in the Aus first innings. Beat the bat constantly and Michael Clarke didn't fancy facing him at all. Although to be fair, Clarke doesn't fancy facing anyone who bowls over 135kph on a pitch that isn't a complete road.

In recent times, it's really only been those two tests against Sri Lanka where Broad completely lost his way.

He wasn't particularly good against Bangladesh, didn't perform that well against Pakistan (though the results say he did pretty good), was OK in the Ashes and abominable versus SL. Hardly the best 2010-June 2011. Especially as he didn't go that well in SA either. I think it folly to paper over the cracks since the Ashes 2009.

@taipan Why do you think Donald will cause Morkel's bowling to deteriorate? AD's the best quick we've ever had (although Steyntjie comes pretty close). Morkel is imo not too far off Steyn.

MrPrez wrote:@taipan Why do you think Donald will cause Morkel's bowling to deteriorate? AD's the best quick we've ever had (although Steyntjie comes pretty close). Morkel is imo not too far off Steyn.

Look, AD was a great quickie but he has no real pedigree as a coach. He has a huge pair of boots to fill replacing the great Vinnie Barnes. Vinnie was a legend, even his dog is called Sachin.