Re: Andy Flower thread

[Brass Monkey]

Uhh, hello Merlin - India have produced two great batsmen recently and Andy Flower averaged 100 against the might of Mighty India, the mightiest team you'll ever see.

[doremi]

Er no, I'm saying the Indian attack wasn't as bad in the 90s as LLL puts it, not in India atleast. That he may/may not have been brought up on dusty tracks would have little consequence to his record in India, because he atmost had to face the might of Paul Strang in domestic Zim cricket. And he did fare decently against most attacks, when he got the opportunity. That he played only one test against the Aussies is a small factor, certainly not of the magnitude that's been suggested.

[tac]

Summat to talk about at least....

Reminds you all of the good ole days when England's top 6 weren't all dross weasels . . .

[Lara Lara Laughs]

"The Indian bowling attack in India was as good as any in the 90s, and better than most".

Must have forgotten that bit then. And even if this statement were true, Flower played one test against India in India in the 90s.

[Merlin]

Uhh, hello Merlin - India have produced two great batsmen recently and Andy Flower averaged 100 against the might of Mighty India, the mightiest team you'll ever see.....

.... EVER.
Amen.

Yo Fink ... you having a good day I see!

[Brass Monkey]

Er no, I'm saying the Indian attack wasn't as bad in the 90s as LLL puts it, not in India atleast. That he may/may not have been brought up on dusty tracks would have little consequence to his record in India, because he atmost had to face the might of Paul Strang in domestic Zim cricket. And he did fare decently against most attacks, when he got the opportunity. That he played only one test against the Aussies is a small factor, certainly not of the magnitude that's been suggested.

So? To be a quality player of spin, you have to have the experience of the conditions more than the experience of good bowlers. Strang > Joshi anyhow. I didn't say he didn't fare decently. I said Graham Thorpe shouldn't have been dismissed as he was and as for people like Compton the summation of them as players was bordering on the worthless.

[JKLever]

You see it's interesting that I claim Thorpe was as good/better than Flower, and yet I think there was a shitstorm when it was suggested by someone Michael Vaughan was better than Sourav Ganguly....

[tac]

You see it's interesting that I claim Thorpe was as good/better than Flower, and yet I think there was a shitstorm when it was suggested by someone Michael Vaughan was better than Sourav Ganguly....

Ganguly is far better than Vaughan . . .

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Vaughan > Laxman > Ganguly.

[Merlin]

Now that I would agree to.
Vaughan definitely > than Gingang.

[Brass Monkey]

Vaughan = Laxman > Ganguly.

[JKLever]

Uhh, hello Merlin - India have produced two great batsmen recently and Andy Flower averaged 100 against the might of Mighty India, the mightiest team you'll ever see.

As much as we get accused of hyping up our players no-one is more than the Indian cricket fan... FFS they were talking after the win in Australia about who was going to stop them from being number 1 in the next few years - and this was after a series defeat FFS!!!!

[Merlin]

You see it's interesting that I claim Thorpe was as good/better than Flower, and yet I think there was a shitstorm when it was suggested by someone Michael Vaughan was better than Sourav Ganguly....

Ganguly is far better than Vaughan . . .

Bollocks ... but a nice try.

[Brass Monkey]

As much as we get accused of hyping up our players no-one is more than the Indian cricket fan... FFS they were talking after the win in Australia about who was going to stop them from being number 1 in the next few years - and this was after a series defeat FFS!!!!

Word. I remember the old: Pathan = The New Wasim.

I sniggered then, I'm laughing now.

[tac]

You see it's interesting that I claim Thorpe was as good/better than Flower, and yet I think there was a shitstorm when it was suggested by someone Michael Vaughan was better than Sourav Ganguly....

Ganguly is far better than Vaughan . . .

Bollocks ... but a nice try.

[Makaveli]

Not sure if the stats back this up but i always felt Thorpe was inconsistent and averge during the 90's when the best attacks were at their peak, after 2000 against us atleast i felt he cashed in on some poor bowling, Wasim/Waqar were past their best by far (both should had retired 2 years earlier imo) the only top class bowler we had was Saqi at the time. It's not just Thorpe guys like SRT/Lara have cashed in when top bowlers from both SA/Pak were comming to the fag end of their careers or retired.

I'm not saying GT was totally cr@p i thought he was great against spin and like LLL was dissapointed he did not get to play in the Ashes 2005. Still a very good batsmen one of my English faves along with Trescothick.

[doremi]

his averages across the board are pretty similar to Thorpe.

Once again, not against the best attacks.

As for the Indian attacks he faced..

in the first 2 of 5 tests only he played in India he faced Venkatapathy Raju, Manoj Prabahkar, Rajesh Chauhan & Ravi Shastri

In the test where he made 183* he faced Srinath,Agarkar,Ganguly as first change bowler and Sunil Joshi

Pardon my french but Bollocks were those attacks as good as anything in the 1990's !!!

I didn't know who he faced in the 90s, was assuming it would be Kumble and Chauhan/Raju/Bhajji, who were more than useful in Indian conditions in the 90s.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

As much as we get accused of hyping up our players no-one is more than the Indian cricket fan... FFS they were talking after the win in Australia about who was going to stop them from being number 1 in the next few years - and this was after a series defeat FFS!!!!

Word. I remember the old: Pathan = The New Wasim.

I sniggered then, I'm laughing now.

What about Sreesanth = Malcolm Marshall? That was a pretty good one.

[tac]

As much as we get accused of hyping up our players no-one is more than the Indian cricket fan... FFS they were talking after the win in Australia about who was going to stop them from being number 1 in the next few years - and this was after a series defeat FFS!!!!

Word. I remember the old: Pathan = The New Wasim.

I sniggered then, I'm laughing now.

What about Sreesanth = Malcolm Marshall? That was a pretty good one.

Come on, LLL, that post of dogaroo were he compared the Indian quicks with the mighty Windies was forum gold!

[Merlin]

Got to laugh ...

Now we have an Andy Flower thread metamorphosing itself into a "spot the real Indian cricket talent in the past 20 years" thread ... to think TO started all this off whilst Mugabe was sorting out the votes on the Zim election thread !!

Freaky!!

[Makaveli]

Actually looking at the stats in the period between 93-00 he avg 39 with 6 centuries in 57 matches, most avgs were hovering around the 30 mark but was excellent against the Aussies (avg 48 ) and goodish against WI (avg37).

[Merlin]

Actually looking at the stats in the period between 93-00 he avg 39 with 6 centuries in 57 matches, most avgs were hovering around the 30 mark but was excellent against the Aussies (avg 48 ) and goodish against WI (avg37).

I'm confused now.
Who did?
Flower, Vaughan, Laxman, Ganguly, Thorpe ... anyone else??

[JKLever]

You see it's interesting that I claim Thorpe was as good/better than Flower, and yet I think there was a shitstorm when it was suggested by someone Michael Vaughan was better than Sourav Ganguly....

Ganguly is far better than Vaughan . . .

See, i'd have no problem with that but Vaughan averages more than Ganguly so if we use the 'has an overall better average' formula used to say Flower is a better player... you see? It has to work both ways

[Makaveli]

Actually looking at the stats in the period between 93-00 he avg 39 with 6 centuries in 57 matches, most avgs were hovering around the 30 mark but was excellent against the Aussies (avg 48 ) and goodish against WI (avg37).

I'm confused now.
Who did?
Flower, Vaughan, Laxman, Ganguly, Thorpe ... anyone else??

Merlin if you read my post i'm not doing a comparison, just making an observation and looking into my original claim.

If you asked me about the Flower v GT don't think i could give you an answer they were both pretty darn good.

[Merlin]

PMSL at JKL's rationale ......

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