This England Team is Rubbish

I'm not looking forward to the up-coming Test Series with New Zealand whatsoever. The problem I see immediately is that this England team is rubbish, and it gets me down. It's not that they're rubbish in terms of talent though, they're just a bunch of uninspiring, inconsistent enigmas who put in a good performance each and then walk around dazzled by their own, glorious glow for the next three or four matches. Once Pietersen's in and out, there's not really an awful lot worth watching in the England side any more. I say this because there just seems to be a lot of workmanlike, above average dawdlers who grind their runs out at 45 or just plonk the ball in decent areas and hope for a wicket. We're actually a bit like New Zealand, though admittedly a fair bit better. We've got too many players who look pretty average when they really ought to be good by now.

Now, I'm not demanding entertainment, I'd just like to see a few guys playing the game with a little less care and a little more aggression. I think England have a big problem in that they let too many sessions pass them by with nothing happening and eventually pay the price when the next session sees them absolutely pummelled. There's a not unreasonable argument that England are in transition, but I honestly think that, on paper, this side is alright and should be achieving better results, and with a little more style, than they currently are. There seems to be an implosive nature about the side that leads to losses or draws that really should have been draws or wins.

Don't be so negative. England are not that bad.

Don't watch them then.

You might get your wish, Augustus: "Vaughan in positive mood"

Test captain Michael Vaughan has called upon England to re-discover their aggressive batting ahead of the npower series against New Zealand.

Although positive strokeplay was a feature of the team’s halcyon period of 2004-05, which culminated in Ashes success, recent displays have proved something a contrast.

Runs have tended to be ground rather than belted out, with results over the past 12 months affecting team confidence.

But Vaughan hopes that will now change, beginning with the Lord’s campaign opener, which begins on Thursday.

“If you look at the last year, we have only beaten West Indies and New Zealand away,” Vaughan said.

“We have been under a lot of pressure and maybe that was one of the reasons we were not playing as fluently as a batting unit.

“Now we have won a series away from home, we should go on and play in the more positive, fluent way we are used to.

“We are all strokeplayers, who get good bases and bat long periods of time when we are playing well. We do have that attacking instinct right through the order.”

http://www.ecb.co.uk/england/npower-tests/vaughan-in-positive-mood,17417,EN.html

So, expect a massive batting collapse punctuated by appalling strokes and wild thrashing any day now...

In fairness the bowling attack is usually fascinating. Harmison does the 'oh god you can be so horrifically cr*p and mentally feeble it's almost treasonable' role. Jimmikins almost likewise. Sidebottom and Panesar are quirky 'cult' figures and Hoggy with or without 'nip' is likeable enough.

It's the batting that's the problem. KP's obviously very good but he's a d*ck and you always wonder if his heart's really in it. The rest really struggle for any personality whatsoever and all seem to have exactly the same batting average. They're all perfectly competent but there's more edge on a marble than the England top order. Uninspiring and inconsistent yes- but they're not even vaguely enigmatic. They're all just too dull to seriously underachieve or overachieve.

Really? An asterisk in crap? Come on - we're all grown ups. We can handle it. Not literally - I suspect after handling crap you'd never be able to completely wash your hands clean again. Like in Macbeth. But with crap.

We're not all incurable vulgarians Dello.

Dello wrote:You might get your wish, Augustus: "Vaughan in positive mood"

Test captain Michael Vaughan has called upon England to re-discover their aggressive batting ahead of the npower series against New Zealand.

Although positive strokeplay was a feature of the team’s halcyon period of 2004-05, which culminated in Ashes success, recent displays have proved something a contrast.

Runs have tended to be ground rather than belted out, with results over the past 12 months affecting team confidence.

But Vaughan hopes that will now change, beginning with the Lord’s campaign opener, which begins on Thursday.

“If you look at the last year, we have only beaten West Indies and New Zealand away,” Vaughan said.

“We have been under a lot of pressure and maybe that was one of the reasons we were not playing as fluently as a batting unit.

“Now we have won a series away from home, we should go on and play in the more positive, fluent way we are used to.

“We are all strokeplayers, who get good bases and bat long periods of time when we are playing well. We do have that attacking instinct right through the order.”

http://www.ecb.co.uk/england/npower-tests/vaughan-in-positive-mood,17417,EN.html

So, expect a massive batting collapse punctuated by appalling strokes and wild thrashing any day now...

What's stopping Vaughan and his team from creating the "agressive batting" that he's calling for?

Oh come on, it a test match at home, we're waiting for the denouement , don't spoil it by being realistic anybody.

I'm a big fan of Cook, but can't help but notice the general malaise surrounding the England team more or less began at the same time as he joined it. Could there be a connection?

Winkle Spinner wrote:I'm a big fan of Cook, but can't help but notice the general malaise surrounding the England team more or less began at the same time as he joined it. Could there be a connection?

In a word -no! There is something in the suggestion that the side is collectively low on confidence - maybe the psychological fallout from the Ashes is still effecting them.

Cook is very definitely a bright spark and can only get better.

Basil wrote:

Winkle Spinner wrote:I'm a big fan of Cook, but can't help but notice the general malaise surrounding the England team more or less began at the same time as he joined it. Could there be a connection?

In a word -no! There is something in the suggestion that the side is collectively low on confidence - maybe the psychological fallout from the Ashes is still effecting them.

Cook is very definitely a bright spark and can only get better.

Agree Basil. Cook for near-future English captain.

Maybe he is a bright spark but he has been rubbish for a while. Only a fortuitous century in Sri Lanka has kept him away from the microscope. He has a poor technique, requires a sort of specialist partner in order to cover up his inability to score runs at any sort of rate, and hasn't developed a single shot since coming into the England team. He's young and he should get better, but he hasn't got any better since coming into the England side. It's probably an indictment of Moores, Flower and Co. more than anything - every England batsman has got worse while they have been coaches.

Rachel wrote:

It's the batting that's the problem. KP's obviously very good but he's a d*ck and you always wonder if his heart's really in it. The rest really struggle for any personality whatsoever and all seem to have exactly the same batting average. They're all perfectly competent but there's more edge on a marble than the England top order. Uninspiring and inconsistent yes- but they're not even vaguely enigmatic. They're all just too dull to seriously underachieve or overachieve.

Aye, and this is the reverse of how it was in the eighties, with Gooch, Gower, Gatt, Lamb, Botham and Smith.

Basil wrote:

Winkle Spinner wrote:I'm a big fan of Cook, but can't help but notice the general malaise surrounding the England team more or less began at the same time as he joined it. Could there be a connection?

In a word -no! There is something in the suggestion that the side is collectively low on confidence - maybe the psychological fallout from the Ashes is still effecting them.

Cook is very definitely a bright spark and can only get better.

W T F Bazza ? Fifteen months on and 4 test series later ?? Pshchological fallout ???
Jesus, what the hell are we nurturing here - a bunch of bloody prima donnas who still wring their
hands in anguish at the fundemental cock ups made by the selection committe, the management
and certain individuals back then?

FFS .... MOVE ON ... the next confrontation with the Aussies is in another 12 months time.
IMO the incumbents had therefore better pull their fingers out and start performing commensurate with the money they
get or else get the hell out of the dressing room and leave it to others more capable.

I'm fed up to the back teeth of hearing lame excuses for this England team.
They're stale (the same old same old) and do not, for one moment fill the regular fan with anything but despair right now -
bumping their way as they do - from one series to another taking farking "positives" from each match yet getting sod all right!!
Frankly, desperation bordering on paranoia in their efforts to find "the correctly balanced team".
And here we were hoping against all odds, that Millar would change things.
Bollocks he has .... like I said ... same old, same old.

Right now the only worthy candidates are Peitersen (yet he continues to be slagged off by myopic forummers on here)
and Sidebottom and Broad - the only REAL discoveries in the past 12 months. The rest of the team - yep, including Strauss and Shah,
are currently "also rans" and have yet to prove themselves deserving of indefinite contracts . End of.

Perhaps we ought to appoint "Brolly" MaClaren to add the finishing touch to this sorry picture.

PS - Hi Filo ... nice to see you back ...
Re: Cook .... he's at least 4 maybe 5 years away from captaining England - if he ever does.

Merlin wrote:

Basil wrote:

Winkle Spinner wrote:I'm a big fan of Cook, but can't help but notice the general malaise surrounding the England team more or less began at the same time as he joined it. Could there be a connection?

In a word -no! There is something in the suggestion that the side is collectively low on confidence - maybe the psychological fallout from the Ashes is still effecting them.

Cook is very definitely a bright spark and can only get better.

W T F Bazza ? Fifteen months on and 4 test series later ?? Pshchological fallout ???
Jesus, what the hell are we nurturing here - a bunch of bloody prima donnas who still wring their
hands in anguish at the fundemental cock ups made by the selection committe, the management
and certain individuals back then?

FFS .... MOVE ON ... the next confrontation with the Aussies is in another 12 months time.
IMO the incumbents had therefore better pull their fingers out and start performing commensurate with the money they
get or else get the hell out of the dressing room and leave it to others more capable.

I'm fed up to the back teeth of hearing lame excuses for this England team.
They're stale and do not, for one moment fill the regular fan with anything but despair right now -
bumping their way as they are doing - from pillar to post in a desperation bordering on paranoia
in their efforts to find "the correctly balanced team".

Right now the only worthy candidates are Peitersen (yet he continues to be slagged off by myopic forummers on here)
and Sidebottom - the only REAL discovery in the past 12 months. The rest of the team - yep, including Strauss and Shah,
are currently "also rans" and have yet to prove themselves deserving of indefinite contracts . End of.

Perhaps we ought to appoint "Brolly" MaClaren to add the finishing touch to this sorry picture.

PS - Hi Filo ... nice to see you back ...
Re: Cook .... he's at least 4 maybe 5 years away from captaining England - if he ever does.

Who's to say they aren't carrying psychological baggage - rightly, or wrongly, it's fundamentally the same side that lost the Ashes. And it wasn't an excuse - just a suggesttion for some timid performances.

Precisely my point mate.

Fundementally the SAME side ... SAME OLD .... SAME OLD ...

My apologies for sounding off ... but I do really despair - after all the promises
of 2005 .... England really, when analysed, have achied precisely NOTHING to take
positives from as our esteemed captain keeps reassuring us all!

Now that we have a change of management leadership, perhaps we might have expected
something different ..... and what happens ?
Same old faces ... same old stats ... same old boring England.

Maybe a tad too early for a complete change of personel Merls, even though I very much wish it with certain people in the team.

However if we perform so incredibly poorly with the bat and something doesn't change, then I really will be despairing.

However, I do wish the excuses and the bollox that are spouted by various members of the team continually sprout would stop, and they would admit that they are bang average at best at the moment, and have a lot to improve on.

I just want us to play good cricket, and we just do not do that at the moment most of the time.

The tour to NZ might just be a watershed - turning round that nightmare of a performance in the first test was praisworthy indeed, and ought to give the players more confidence to go out and express themselves.

The batsmen need to forget how long it is since they last put a decent score on the board - and just go out there and hit the bloody ball!

If the wheels come off in either of the first two tests - no excuses, for either coach or players - changes will have to be made.

Agree fully Chas - yes it is too early for a mass clear-out.

But the Aussies are a mere 12 months away, and no way do I see this current England team competing with them on a level field next year,
Vawn continually seeks to self preserve with hot air anticipation (he WANTS to be captain in 2009 FFS - and even gets Felch's nod from afar!) ; Bell and Colly "get by" with praising words like "promising youngster" and "stoic middle order" respectively; Cook and Strauss continually flatter to deceive; thankfully KP, Sibo, Broad and Ambrose are the glimmers in an otherwise stale and dour team.... possibly Monty too ... but he's yet to turn it on full.

And they continue to speak of high expectation of Bopara !! A semi dud in the WC ODI's and a complete dud in SL !! But hey, let's stick with him ... (ahead of solid performers like Key, Shah and others of that ilk - yes, even Ramprakash) !!

Like you, all I want is to see England play bright attacking cricket ... grab the oppo's jugular just for a change, not continually getting themselves out of trouble whilst taking positives from the game!

I agree, we are just such a mediocre test side. We'll win but we certainly won't entertain, we'll grind out ugly wins and show no intensity at the moment.

Bar Pietersen we have no stroke makers. Vaughan plays a gorgeous shot every now and hes really a shadow of his former self. Strauss has been terrible to watch since people realised to take his cut and pull shot away from him. Bell will make a fluent 50 but the rest of the time just look out of his depth, which leaves Collingwood and Cook and their nudges into the leg side to look foward to.

No x-factor Bowling wise either. Sidebottom and Panesar are orthodox but effective. Broad looks like he'll be the same. Anderon is the only bowler I'd pay to watch because he can tear through teams when hes on fire. The only catch is that hes on fire one test per series

I think the gist of the issue is that as a test side, all we really have done for the past 12-18 months is get by. That just isn't good enough to be a constant at the pinnacle of any sport.

Scoring pretty 30-50's and make no contribution to the team in essence isn't good enough. Thats the issue with almost all of our top 6 bar KP. Too many 30's and 40's = good on paper but mediocre in reality.

We dont post big totals unless its on a road against pump bowling or the pressure is right off us.

As for our bowling, we are steady but nothing more. Sibo has been great, but isn't X factor, Monty has stagnated, and the rest are either very raw or so inconsistent they make soured milk lack lumps.

Just all in all we get by and that from a side that professes to have quality throughout. We all average 40 don't you know!!!!

I'm not saying that those in the wings will do any better, but as Baz has said, if we do not pull up trees in this coming series then something must change, even if we win, because in the grand scheme of things, beating an inexperienced lacking in quality Kiwi side should be done with panache and ruthlessness, and not the jittery bullsheet we saw in NZ!!!!

This England team is mediocre and I suspect has little chance of even making next year's Ashes much of a contest - but I think the problem goes further than just this group of players, who give or take the odd personal opinion are probably close to being the best eleven we've got, even if they're not world-beaters. We overachieved for a couple of years which raised expectations, now we're back in mid-table as we were in the early part of this decade and that's probably a fair reflection of what we've got.

The problem is that the county game is still dominated by non-England qualified players and those who have proved they can't hack it at the top level. Where's the players forcing the selectors to make room for them, the players in their mid 20s or younger consistently averaging 50 with the bat or 25 with the ball?

beamer wrote:This England team is mediocre and I suspect has little chance of even making next year's Ashes much of a contest - but I think the problem goes further than just this group of players, who give or take the odd personal opinion are probably close to being the best eleven we've got, even if they're not world-beaters. We overachieved for a couple of years which raised expectations, now we're back in mid-table as we were in the early part of this decade and that's probably a fair reflection of what we've got.

The problem is that the county game is still dominated by non-England qualified players and those who have proved they can't hack it at the top level. Where's the players forcing the selectors to make room for them, the players in their mid 20s or younger consistently averaging 50 with the bat or 25 with the ball?

They have been carrying the drinks and not getting a go, hilst those who are producing mediocre performances when it matters against the better sides are given central contracts and guaranteed to play.

I dont want a revolvong door policy at all, just a bit of competition and those who have proven themselves in FCC to be given the chances they deserve that those who are not producing have had time and time again!!

English fans really love the whole self - loathing thing.