Pietersen to be named as England captain

JKLever wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:

taipan wrote:How the hell did we did to the race card?

People who cannot get over the change of nationality, the fact it's so inherent in their thought of that person smacks of prejudice. I just don't get it. 'The Saffie' this, 'KP the Japie' that. People just need to get over it. His mum's English, he's married to an English bird, he's got three cheesy lions on his arm, he's got family here, he's lived here nearly all of his adult life or 9 years to near precision, he plays for England, he is now the captain.

As for the likes of Strauss and Prior being called South African, well, it's quite unbelievable.

And that's before we get into Shah,Mahmood,Bopara territory for some on here....

I didn't realise 'rubbish pie chuckers' was a race?

bliksem wrote:Except I never said he's not British. I said he decided to become British because it was easier than being South African. So you can wipe the foam from your gash and calm down a tad before you poke yourself in the eye with that race card you're waving about.

Fair point. Though, I think you're getting a little het up. Chill, girlfriend.

bliksem wrote:
The whole Pietersen saga leaves a disturbing taste in my mouth, even more so than the wife's apple 'n cumin crumble. Deciding to leave SA because he couldn't be arsed to get selected the normal way was one thing, mouthing off about his supposed injustices every time someone with a mic walked past was another to make sure his cover story got some good air-time, going to the desperate extremes of getting tattooed and refering to every group of living organisms on the planet as 'lads' yet another, but then being made England captain on top of it all? It's bad enough that the England captain was chosen simply because he was the only person guaranteed a place in the team, but that the person in question only became British because it was easier than being South African (or any other nationality)??

I find it odd as an outsider, but I could imagine if I was English I'd be well pissed.

You're hanging onto nationality of origin again. He felt he was treated harshly, I'd probably want a few words. I'm just not as much of a sook as him to air it all out. There're still problems there and he expressed his concern, which others have done. He's not alone. As for the 'lads' thing - you are joking? You pick up the vernacular wherever you go - it's how humans are different to animals.

As for the rest of it all - amazed, I am. He was made England captain, because he's the best English player, he'll be in all forms of the game, obviously commands the respect of his contemporaries - whether it be purely cricketing or otherwise. He's one of the most senior players in the team.

You've really got to get off this 'easier' shit. It's utterly bitter bollocks.

If you think it's 'easier' to come to a different country at a young age on your own, change the entire make-up of your cricketing rationale, have to wait 6 years to qualify to play for the country - rather than stay where you are, get a definite wage, keep the way you play cricket and possibly play for SA quickly - certainly not a 6 year guarantee on the sidelines, especially in the position he was in - a spinner in a country where there's a paucity of spinners, then you're such a gigantic mug, I don't know what more to say to you.

bliksem wrote:Except I never said he's not British. I said he decided to become British because it was easier than being South African. So you can wipe the foam from your gash and calm down a tad before you poke yourself in the eye with that race card you're waving about.

The whole Pietersen saga leaves a disturbing taste in my mouth, even more so than the wife's apple 'n cumin crumble. Deciding to leave SA because he couldn't be arsed to get selected the normal way was one thing, mouthing off about his supposed injustices every time someone with a mic walked past to make sure his cover story got some good air-time was another, going to the desperate extremes of getting tattooed and refering to every group of living organisms on the planet as 'lads' yet another, but then being made England captain on top of it all? It's bad enough that the England captain was chosen simply because he was the only person guaranteed a place in the team, but that the person in question only became British because it was easier than being South African (or any other nationality)??

I find it odd as an outsider, but I could imagine if I was English I'd be well pissed.

Migration for work happens everywhere Bliks. People then become citizens of the country they have moved too.

I could see how the mouthing off would get under your wick, but not the moving to try and better ones chances of gainful employment?

bliksem wrote:Except I never said he's not British. I said he decided to become British because it was easier than being South African. So you can wipe the foam from your gash and calm down a tad before you poke yourself in the eye with that race card you're waving about.

The whole Pietersen saga leaves a disturbing taste in my mouth, even more so than the wife's apple 'n cumin crumble. Deciding to leave SA because he couldn't be arsed to get selected the normal way was one thing, mouthing off about his supposed injustices every time someone with a mic walked past to make sure his cover story got some good air-time was another, going to the desperate extremes of getting tattooed and refering to every group of living organisms on the planet as 'lads' yet another, but then being made England captain on top of it all? It's bad enough that the England captain was chosen simply because he was the only person guaranteed a place in the team, but that the person in question only became British because it was easier than being South African (or any other nationality)??

I find it odd as an outsider, but I could imagine if I was English I'd be well pissed.

Does he mouth of about his injustices every 5 minutes? I can't say i've ever heard it apart from when it was originally reported.

Roger Twose left England to go and play for NZ - got himself a Kiwi wife etc

Even came back and beat us in a series in 99

Can't see I was as pissed as the Saffers seem to be. Would you be that pissed if he actually wasn't that good? Because I don't really recall a peep from SA during his qualifying stint

He's just hurt. And bitter. That's all.

JKLever wrote:

bliksem wrote:Except I never said he's not British. I said he decided to become British because it was easier than being South African. So you can wipe the foam from your gash and calm down a tad before you poke yourself in the eye with that race card you're waving about.

The whole Pietersen saga leaves a disturbing taste in my mouth, even more so than the wife's apple 'n cumin crumble. Deciding to leave SA because he couldn't be arsed to get selected the normal way was one thing, mouthing off about his supposed injustices every time someone with a mic walked past to make sure his cover story got some good air-time was another, going to the desperate extremes of getting tattooed and refering to every group of living organisms on the planet as 'lads' yet another, but then being made England captain on top of it all? It's bad enough that the England captain was chosen simply because he was the only person guaranteed a place in the team, but that the person in question only became British because it was easier than being South African (or any other nationality)??

I find it odd as an outsider, but I could imagine if I was English I'd be well pissed.

Does he mouth of about his injustices every 5 minutes? I can't say i've ever heard it apart from when it was originally reported.

Roger Twose left England to go and play for NZ - got himself a Kiwi wife etc

Even came back and beat us in a series in 99

Can't see I was as pissed as the Saffers seem to be. Would you be that pissed if he actually wasn't that good? Because I don't really recall a peep from SA during his qualifying stint

Well I can't speak for all the Saffies here, but I'm not pissed and Bliks doesn't seem to be.

Well all I can say is good luck to the big galoot. I hope it doesn't stop him reverse sweeping and I hope (though in vain) that the press give him a fair go.

I just hope that he sticks to his guns, and stamps his mark on the team.

The last thing we need is him turning into another poitives man, or a yes man like Peter Sussex.

If we're shoite, then I want him to publicly say we were shoite!!!!

Brass Monkey wrote:

You've really got to get off this 'easier' shit. It's utterly bitter bollocks.

If you think it's 'easier' to come to a different country at a young age on your own, change the entire make-up of your cricketing rationale, have to wait 6 years to qualify to play for the country - rather than stay where you are, get a definite wage, keep the way you play cricket and possibly play for SA quickly - certainly not a 6 year guarantee on the sidelines, especially in the position he was in - a spinner in a country where there's a paucity of spinners, then you're such a gigantic mug, I don't know what more to say to you.

Not sure where you got all this from. He left SA because he wasn't getting selected. If he wasn't getting selected for Natal it's not particularly likely he was going to get selected for SA. It's certainly easier going to a country where you're guaranteed selection than to remain in one where you're not.

Jeez, you make it sound like he moved to Afghanistan when he was 12 rather than England when he was 21. And he only had to wait 4 years, not 6.

bliksem wrote:
Not sure where you got all this from. He left SA because he wasn't getting selected. If he wasn't getting selected for Natal it's not particularly likely he was going to get selected for SA. It's certainly easier going to a country where you're guaranteed selection than to remain in one where you're not.

Jeez, you make it sound like he moved to Afghanistan when he was 12 rather than England when he was 21. And he only had to wait 4 years, not 6.

A lot of people don't get selected. They don't all go flying all over the place. He was guaranteed nothing over here at all. 'Not sure where you got all this from'. He played league cricket when he first came over here at the age of 19. He played for Notts for 3 years before he qualified, in late 2004. That means it's a 5 year qualification. So sorry. Makes a world of difference.

JKLever wrote:

bliksem wrote:Except I never said he's not British. I said he decided to become British because it was easier than being South African. So you can wipe the foam from your gash and calm down a tad before you poke yourself in the eye with that race card you're waving about.

The whole Pietersen saga leaves a disturbing taste in my mouth, even more so than the wife's apple 'n cumin crumble. Deciding to leave SA because he couldn't be arsed to get selected the normal way was one thing, mouthing off about his supposed injustices every time someone with a mic walked past to make sure his cover story got some good air-time was another, going to the desperate extremes of getting tattooed and refering to every group of living organisms on the planet as 'lads' yet another, but then being made England captain on top of it all? It's bad enough that the England captain was chosen simply because he was the only person guaranteed a place in the team, but that the person in question only became British because it was easier than being South African (or any other nationality)??

I find it odd as an outsider, but I could imagine if I was English I'd be well pissed.

Does he mouth of about his injustices every 5 minutes? I can't say i've ever heard it apart from when it was originally reported.

Roger Twose left England to go and play for NZ - got himself a Kiwi wife etc

Even came back and beat us in a series in 99

Can't see I was as pissed as the Saffers seem to be. Would you be that pissed if he actually wasn't that good? Because I don't really recall a peep from SA during his qualifying stint

Yep, the Twose scenario is weird as well, although at least didn't pretend that his move was inspired by anything other than the fact that he could make the NZ team whereas he couldn't make the England one.

I wonder why there were so many people calling Darren Pattinson an Aussie when he was selected for the 2nd Test? He's qualified for England, so why the vitriol towards him but not Pietersen? Is it because Pattinson is crap?

bliksem wrote:
I wonder why there were so many people calling Darren Pattinson an Aussie when he was selected for the 2nd Test? He's qualified for England, so why the vitriol towards him but not Pietersen? Is it because Pattinson is crap?

Because Pietersen came here at the age of 19, determined to play for England after a qualification period of 5 years and about 70 FC matches?

bliksem wrote:

JKLever wrote:

bliksem wrote:Except I never said he's not British. I said he decided to become British because it was easier than being South African. So you can wipe the foam from your gash and calm down a tad before you poke yourself in the eye with that race card you're waving about.

The whole Pietersen saga leaves a disturbing taste in my mouth, even more so than the wife's apple 'n cumin crumble. Deciding to leave SA because he couldn't be arsed to get selected the normal way was one thing, mouthing off about his supposed injustices every time someone with a mic walked past to make sure his cover story got some good air-time was another, going to the desperate extremes of getting tattooed and refering to every group of living organisms on the planet as 'lads' yet another, but then being made England captain on top of it all? It's bad enough that the England captain was chosen simply because he was the only person guaranteed a place in the team, but that the person in question only became British because it was easier than being South African (or any other nationality)??

I find it odd as an outsider, but I could imagine if I was English I'd be well pissed.

Does he mouth of about his injustices every 5 minutes? I can't say i've ever heard it apart from when it was originally reported.

Roger Twose left England to go and play for NZ - got himself a Kiwi wife etc

Even came back and beat us in a series in 99

Can't see I was as pissed as the Saffers seem to be. Would you be that pissed if he actually wasn't that good? Because I don't really recall a peep from SA during his qualifying stint

Yep, the Twose scenario is weird as well, although at least didn't pretend that his move was inspired by anything other than the fact that he could make the NZ team whereas he couldn't make the England one.

I wonder why there were so many people calling Darren Pattinson an Aussie when he was selected for the 2nd Test? He's qualified for England, so why the vitriol towards him but not Pietersen? Is it because Pattinson is crap?

KP did 5 years, and stated he wanted to play for England.

Pattinson - Is and always will be an Aussie, never harboured any ambitions to play for England, played as he wanted to play International cricket. Hadn't even lived here, apart from the first few years of his life!

The difference Bliks is a conscious decision to want to play for England, not just wanting to play International cricket.

Brass Monkey wrote:

bliksem wrote:
Not sure where you got all this from. He left SA because he wasn't getting selected. If he wasn't getting selected for Natal it's not particularly likely he was going to get selected for SA. It's certainly easier going to a country where you're guaranteed selection than to remain in one where you're not.

Jeez, you make it sound like he moved to Afghanistan when he was 12 rather than England when he was 21. And he only had to wait 4 years, not 6.

A lot of people don't get selected. They don't all go flying all over the place. He was guaranteed nothing over here at all. 'Not sure where you got all this from'. He played league cricket when he first came over here at the age of 19. He played for Notts for 3 years before he qualified, in late 2004. That means it's a 5 year qualification. So sorry. Makes a world of difference.

You're right, a lot of people don't get selected and they stay where they are to work harder for what they want.

Yes, he played league cricket in England when he was 19 during the SA off-season, then he flew back to SA and played for Natal B, then he decided he'd had enough of it all and accepted an offer to play at Notts, which is more of a guarantee than being told you're not likely to make the senior Natal team. His first season with Notts was 2001. He was selected for England in 2005. The only way you get 6 years from that equation is if you ask Pietersen to do the math for you. Oh no, I made a sarcy comment about Pietersen, I must be bitter.

It was 4 FC seasons, but the qualifying period was longer I believe

Move on Bliks!
If the issue sticks in yer throat, clear yer throat.
No point getting all high n mighty about KP.

Was disillusioned in Natal ..
Chose his Ma's side ....
Moved here in his teens.
Journeyed 5 years through the CC circuit learning his game and gaining qualification.
Succeeded. Now captain's England.
End of.

What's the bee in yer bonnet about?
Live with it rather than the sooky la la'ing with "if you were an Englishman you wouldn't like it".
That's bollocks and I think you know it.
On the other hand, we actually love it.
It's called "equal opportunities".

bliksem wrote:

You're right, a lot of people don't get selected and they stay where they are to work harder for what they want.

Yes, he played league cricket in England when he was 19 during the SA off-season, then he flew back to SA and played for Natal B, then he decided he'd had enough of it all and accepted an offer to play at Notts, which is more of a guarantee than being told you're not likely to make the senior Natal team. His first season with Notts was 2001. He was selected for England in 2005. The only way you get 6 years from that equation is if you ask Pietersen to do the math for you. Oh no, I made a sarcy comment about Pietersen, I must be bitter.

He came here to qualify when he was 19. Whatever he was doing in the SA season is irrelevant. He came here to qualify at that age. It doesn't matter when his debut for Notts was, and he qualified September 2004, and played in Nov 2004. I'd already corrected it to 5 years.

And it's maths.

holcs wrote:

bliksem wrote:

JKLever wrote:

bliksem wrote:Except I never said he's not British. I said he decided to become British because it was easier than being South African. So you can wipe the foam from your gash and calm down a tad before you poke yourself in the eye with that race card you're waving about.

The whole Pietersen saga leaves a disturbing taste in my mouth, even more so than the wife's apple 'n cumin crumble. Deciding to leave SA because he couldn't be arsed to get selected the normal way was one thing, mouthing off about his supposed injustices every time someone with a mic walked past to make sure his cover story got some good air-time was another, going to the desperate extremes of getting tattooed and refering to every group of living organisms on the planet as 'lads' yet another, but then being made England captain on top of it all? It's bad enough that the England captain was chosen simply because he was the only person guaranteed a place in the team, but that the person in question only became British because it was easier than being South African (or any other nationality)??

I find it odd as an outsider, but I could imagine if I was English I'd be well pissed.

Does he mouth of about his injustices every 5 minutes? I can't say i've ever heard it apart from when it was originally reported.

Roger Twose left England to go and play for NZ - got himself a Kiwi wife etc

Even came back and beat us in a series in 99

Can't see I was as pissed as the Saffers seem to be. Would you be that pissed if he actually wasn't that good? Because I don't really recall a peep from SA during his qualifying stint

Yep, the Twose scenario is weird as well, although at least didn't pretend that his move was inspired by anything other than the fact that he could make the NZ team whereas he couldn't make the England one.

I wonder why there were so many people calling Darren Pattinson an Aussie when he was selected for the 2nd Test? He's qualified for England, so why the vitriol towards him but not Pietersen? Is it because Pattinson is crap?

KP did 5 years, and stated he wanted to play for England.

Pattinson - Is and always will be an Aussie, never harboured any ambitions to play for England, played as he wanted to play International cricket. Hadn't even lived here, apart from the first few years of his life!

The difference Bliks is a conscious decision to want to play for England, not just wanting to play International cricket.

But why did he make a conscious decision that he wanted to play for England? Because he had an Australian passport? No, that's right, he had an English one. Obviously I can't know for certain what's in his head, but I would imagine that his real desire was to play senior and then maybe international cricket. The fact that he proclaimed this desire to be for England was because that was the easiest and probably only option open to him. The only difference is that he had a plan whilst Pattinson didn't know what was going on before some bloke called Miller called him up one Tuesday afternoon.

bliksem wrote: The only difference is that he had a plan whilst Pattinson didn't know what was going on before some bloke called Miller called him up one Tuesday afternoon.

And with that plan had to come commitment.

Nottinghamshire sign young South African

Ken Borland

October 3, 2000

Nottinghamshire have signed a young South African all-rounder on a three-year county contract. Kevin Pietersen is an off-spinner and hard-hitting lower-order batsman and has been playing for Natal.

Pietersen, who has a British passport courtesy of his English mother, told the Natal Witness on Monday that "I'm not turning my back on South African cricket", but Natal coach Phil Russell said he was "disappointed to lose a player of Kevin's potential".

With the Nottinghamshire contract dependent on him not being classified as an overseas player in England, Pietersen could not play domestically for Natal, unless as an overseas professional, and he spent several "chaotic" hours yesterday deciding on his cricketing future.

He eventually decided to throw in his lot with Nottinghamshire and Clive Rice, the former South African captain who is now the county's director of cricket, said the move would be in his best interests and enable him to escape the quota systems and "non-merit selections" that have seen an ever-increasing flow of young white South African cricketers staking their futures overseas.

"I first saw Kevin in the 1997 schools' week in Grahamstown and he missed out on SA Schools selection then due to the quota system," Rice said Monday. "And that is something that will continue to push him sideways in South Africa, whereas in England, merit selection is entrenched in the game."

"It is his best chance of playing Test cricket and I certainly see him possibly getting into the England team once he has done his four years of qualifying," Rice, a national selector as recently as last year, said.

Rice described the 20-year-old Maritzburg College product as a "fantastic talent". "He's a very exciting player and it's wonderful that he has kept on working at his game despite the setbacks he has suffered. There's just something about him and I believe a move to England will be just the thing to bring his real talents to fruition."

Pietersen, who has only a one-year contract with Natal, said the "guarantee of three years of high-quality cricket" with Nottinghamshire was "a career opportunity too good to turn down."

He will join up with Nottinghamshire for their pre-season tour of, ironically, South Africa where he will meet up with Greg Smith, the highly rated Northerns left-arm paceman, who has also signed for Nottinghamshire, joining the ever-increasing flow of talented players being lost by South African cricket.

bliksem wrote:[quote="holcs]
But why did he make a conscious decision that he wanted to play for England? Because he had an Australian passport? No, that's right, he had an English one. Obviously I can't know for certain what's in his head, but I would imagine that his real desire was to play senior and then maybe international cricket. The fact that he proclaimed this desire to be for England was because that was the easiest and probably only option open to him. The only difference is that he had a plan whilst Pattinson didn't know what was going on before some bloke called Miller called him up one Tuesday afternoon.

I would wager its because KP at a point decided he wanted to represent England - for whatever reasons. He did a qualifying period, and since has always been seen as being a player who is proud to play for England, not just happy he's afforded the opportunity to play International cricket.

He also lived here for 6 years or whatever it was before for the whole period working hard and grafting in FC cricket.

Pattinson on the other hand is a fair dinkum Aussie according to all and sundry - and was just happy to be afforded an opportunity at International cricket.

The difference - one has viewed it as representing his adopted country, the other just playing International Cricket.

I would venture that Kepler Wessels was proud to represent SA, but please he could play International cricket for Aus. Therein lies the difference IMO?

Brass Monkey wrote:

bliksem wrote:
Not sure where you got all this from. He left SA because he wasn't getting selected. If he wasn't getting selected for Natal it's not particularly likely he was going to get selected for SA. It's certainly easier going to a country where you're guaranteed selection than to remain in one where you're not.

Jeez, you make it sound like he moved to Afghanistan when he was 12 rather than England when he was 21. And he only had to wait 4 years, not 6.

A lot of people don't get selected. They don't all go flying all over the place. He was guaranteed nothing over here at all. 'Not sure where you got all this from'. He played league cricket when he first came over here at the age of 19. He played for Notts for 3 years before he qualified, in late 2004. That means it's a 5 year qualification. So sorry. Makes a world of difference.

He was already playing for England A in Feb 2004, which presumably means he was England qualified at that stage.

holcs wrote:I would venture that Kepler Wessels was proud to represent SA, but please he could play International cricket for Aus. Therein lies the difference IMO?

Wessels is a piece of crap. He has no loyalty to anything.

taipan wrote:

holcs wrote:I would venture that Kepler Wessels was proud to represent SA, but please he could play International cricket for Aus. Therein lies the difference IMO?

Wessels is a piece of crap. He has no loyalty to anything.

I don't know the man, but the example still stands.

holcs wrote:

taipan wrote:

holcs wrote:I would venture that Kepler Wessels was proud to represent SA, but please he could play International cricket for Aus. Therein lies the difference IMO?

Wessels is a piece of crap. He has no loyalty to anything.

I don't know the man, but the example still stands.

he is no example of anything.