Durham signs Dave Warner for T20

"A zonal/regional/franchise structure will not work in England. It's just a masturbatory fantasy for supporters of counties hosting test matches.

Not worth discussing."


Can you provide evidence for your views?

OP Tipping wrote:"A zonal/regional/franchise structure will not work in England. It's just a masturbatory fantasy for supporters of counties hosting test matches.

Not worth discussing."


Can you provide evidence for your views?

No, it's an opinion - evidence not required.

It's just a belief that fewer sides will starve the game of young players coming through into the professional game. I would argue that what is needed is a concerted effort involving the spending of a serious amount of money, to improve the standard of the game at minor county level so that in the long term, 2 or 3 sides could challenge for a place in the county champiosnship.

You could then have (say) three divisions of seven clubs, which would reduce the amount of cricket played by each side - thus leaving more time for preparation.

OP Tipping wrote:"
It's a bit of a joke really, I think the merging of counties would strengthen the quality of players."


Well people have been talking about that for decades...

Yep, even before they gave Durham FC status.

"No, it's an opinion - evidence not required. "


Wow. That's how things work in England, is it?

Given that we are discussing it, maybe it is worth discussing...

Consider, for a moment, the alternative possibility that it is TOO easy to be a professional cricketer in England.

Unlike Bas, I've always thought zonal cricket on top of the county structure could work. It wouldn't matter if the crowds were poor - county attendances are hardly great anyway (though better than the usual man and his dog jibe)

North,South,East,West - 6 extra games per season with the cream of the county championship trying to get into the regional sides. Only england eligible players allowed. Would be a higher standard of cricket for the selectors to see if a players has what it takes.

Cut the championship to 9 games a season, that way you can fit it in and at the same time the counties can fit their numerous T20 bashathons in as well....

Agree on the Minor Counties though Bas, there should be an easier route through to FC cricket for a talented player.

OP Tipping wrote:Given that we are discussing it, maybe it is worth discussing...

Consider, for a moment, the alternative possibility that it is TOO easy to be a professional cricketer in England.

I don't think becoming a professional cricketer is easy. Just thinking about players who have come through Worcestershire's academy to be offered a contract, I'd say the success rate is less than 20% (guesswork before you ask for evidence )

Do they work hard enough once they've earned a contract? That's debatable as players are very well remunerated these days. But if the money wasn't good, they might bugger off and do something else, so it's a catch-22 situation.

JKLever wrote:Unlike Bas, I've always thought zonal cricket on top of the county structure could work. It wouldn't matter if the crowds were poor - county attendances are hardly great anyway (though better than the usual man and his dog jibe)

a new structure not getting the same support as an old one is a given. you cant expect the same level of support for something thats a year old to a 100 years old. unless its given time you will never know if its successful. you just need someone with guts to say we are going ahead with this and we shall give it at least 5-10 years

"I don't think becoming a professional cricketer is easy. Just thinking about players who have come through Worcestershire's academy to be offered a contract, I'd say the success rate is less than 20% (guesswork before you ask for evidence"


Okay, but what I mean is that the standard required is not all that great... I'm not trying to offend. A player in the second division will not be facing strong teams on a regular basis.

For comparison, Brendan Nash couldn't hold a place in the Queensland side, and averaged less than 30 in the Sheffield Shield. He was finally dropped back to the grades three years ago.

In his first five tests for the Windies he averages 43. There are many Australian test players Test stats better than their Shield stats.

Can you imagine someone who couldn't hold down a gig with Durham popping up in another country as a successful Test player?

"Only england eligible players allowed. "

Yarp. And make it clear that, regardless of what the fans care about, national selectors will look more closely at performance at Zonal level than at county level.

ss

OP Tipping wrote:"I don't think becoming a professional cricketer is easy. Just thinking about players who have come through Worcestershire's academy to be offered a contract, I'd say the success rate is less than 20% (guesswork before you ask for evidence"


Okay, but what I mean is that the standard required is not all that great... I'm not trying to offend. A player in the second division will not be facing strong teams on a regular basis.

For comparison, Brendan Nash couldn't hold a place in the Queensland side, and averaged less than 30 in the Sheffield Shield. He was finally dropped back to the grades three years ago.

In his first five tests for the Windies he averages 43. There are many Australian test players Test stats better than their Shield stats.

Can you imagine someone who couldn't hold down a gig with Durham popping up in another country as a successful Test player?

"Only england eligible players allowed. "

Yarp. And make it clear that, regardless of what the fans care about, national selectors will look more closely at performance at Zonal level than at county level.

The example of Nash is a valid one, although it has to be said that he looks to me like the poor man's Collingwood and may yet fail to secure a permanent place in the Widies side.

If you have a competition with 18 sides, it's reasonable to assume that the standard per side will not be as great as in a competition with five or six sides - if it was, you buggers would never win the Ashes

I'm not against a regional competition provided it was run something along the lines that JK suggested. Six sides playing five four day games, and a 50 over competition for as long as the World Cup remains at 50 overs. That could be accommodated into the existing structure, if the counties are prepared to reduce the number of champiship games played, and dispense with the Friends Provident Trophy.

"I'm not against a regional competition "


So we're all agreed...

OP Tipping wrote:"I'm not against a regional competition "


So we're all agreed...

But it's got sod-all chance of being introduced. So, best to tinker with existing structure - too much cricket being played IMO. I'd reduce the championship to 12 games per season (3 divisions) and drop the idea of a 20/20 premier League.

The first thing the Counties will do is ask for compensation for the loss of revenue due to the cut in the number of games they're playing and most liking money for use of the players they 'let' play in the regional games.

Where's the money coming from for the regional competition? Sponsors are thin on the ground these days......

Basil wrote:

OP Tipping wrote:"I'm not against a regional competition "


So we're all agreed...

But it's got sod-all chance of being introduced. So, best to tinker with existing structure - too much cricket being played IMO. I'd reduce the championship to 12 games per season (3 divisions) and drop the idea of a 20/20 premier League.

so does this mean that Scotland, Wales and Provence (latter because of the number of brits who hang out there) would count as regions for the purposes of the comp???

WTF is Dave Warner?
Poor man's Aussie version of Graham Napier?!!

He's the Great White hope of Aus T20, merls.

"Where's the money coming from for the regional competition?"


Where's the money coming from to prop up the counties all these years?

eowyn wrote:He's the Great White hope of Aus T20, merls.

Ah, ta Ange ... another quick-flash Bradman then !

OP Tipping wrote:"Where's the money coming from for the regional competition?"


Where's the money coming from to prop up the counties all these years?

Giles Clarke's entrepreneurial nous and wizardry!

OP Tipping wrote:"Where's the money coming from for the regional competition?"


Where's the money coming from to prop up the counties all these years?

ECB, sponsorship deals, the pockets of Chairmen and investors who invest their own money because they have a weird love of cricket, gate receipts (for some), bank loans, membership fees.

I suppose the money already there can be juggled around but it'll cause squealing. Who's going to run the regions needs to thought about too. Do they have separate administration or a central one?

Merlin, he was selected for the Australian T20 and ODI sides without ever having played a first class match.

Indeed he still hasn't played a first class match and he now has IPL and English T20 contracts.

As detailed in my sig, he made a rapid 50 on debut versus RSA in the T20, ultimately 89 off 43 balls, and for a couple of days everyone was talking about him, even saying he should be rushed into the side before the Ashes ... and he still hasn't played a first class match.

"Who's going to run the regions needs to thought about too. Do they have separate administration or a central one?"


For mine, the whole point of it would be to give England's best players some higher level match experience and to aid national selection, so it would make sense for it to be administered solely by the ECB.

£50K each from the ECB as starters (from the Stanford fund) .. membership, sponsorship and gate money.

At Middlesex we pay £140 annual membership - and at the last count I believe there were something like 8,000 paid up members .... that's just over £ 1 mill give or take - but Mddsx is acknowledged to be (along with the big two ooop Norf and the four home counties, a "rich" club".) Other counties are more dependent on ECB funds and sponsorship.

There is now also encouragement for companies to sponsor individual players - ie., in lieu of salary - but not so sure how that will dovetail into the administration of the clubs.

T20 gate money helps considerably.

OP Tipping wrote:Merlin, he was selected for the Australian T20 and ODI sides without ever having played a first class match.

Indeed he still hasn't played a first class match and he now has IPL and English T20 contracts.

As detailed in my sig, he made a rapid 50 on debut versus RSA in the T20, ultimately 89 off 43 balls, and for a couple of days everyone was talking about him, even saying he should be rushed into the side before the Ashes ... and he still hasn't played a first class match.

Just goes to show how a player can catapult himself into the "big time" on the back of one or two sparkling T20 performances! Graham Napier, an Essex chav, (and his IPL contract) comes to mind!