West Indies v England, 5th Test, Port of Spain, Mar 6 - 10

Dello wrote:This is going to be another heroic failure, isn't it?

Credit to England for trying to save Test cricket.

To quote and redeem a famous saying: "There are two teams out there, and only one of them is playing cricket."

(Just comparing the approaches of the captains, y'understand!)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

Windies take the series.

Delayed declarations here and at Antigua cost England the series. Regaining the Ashes seems a long way off. Moral of this series: Andrew Strauss - great bat, crap captain.

holcs wrote:Test drawn.

Strauss you negative Fark!!!

Can't fault Strauss for that. What else could he have done?

Well done Windies.

Let's hope the steel from WI lasts to the England tour, so we can see good games on different pitches. I'm looking forward to it now.

Congrats England on making such a fantastic go at it, they played the more positive cricket and probably deserved a share of the spoils.

But we are an improving team, the team spirit is fantastic and step one on the road of recovery is complete IMHO, we have become much harder to beat.

This must not hide the fact that Devon Smith, Darren Powell and possibly Ryan Hinds should not be in the team at the expense of Barath, Simmons and Bravo Jr.

Congrats WIFAN. It's been a long time coming. I hope you enjoy it!

holcs and others:

I don't agree with that. I think Strauss generally took intelligent decisions. The main problems were:

1) utter and farcical collapse of batting in Innings 2 of Test 1
2) dead and deader pitches thereafter (with a tendency by WIndies to stonewall)
3) a class bowler or possibly two short. (Harmi or Amjad. Hmmmm)
And a bit less crucial than those:
4) some poor drops

And on the specific point of an "overcautious declaration" - I wouldn't have thought a "Sobers declaration" (offering about 215 in 75 overs?) would stand up to much scrutiny.

I still think Swann would have been better bowling the last over... oh well, well played Windies. I knew they were a lot better than we gave them credit for.

Chris Gayle needs to captain with more aggression, but the batting is improving. If they can find a third seamer to go with Edwards & Taylor, also possibly the return of Dwayne Bravo I think a solid side could emerge.

Dello wrote:

holcs wrote:Test drawn.

Strauss you negative Fark!!!

Can't fault Strauss for that. What else could he have done?

See Allan's comments.

The Windies mindset ALL test was draw, plus with Gayle injured and always going to bat down, they were never going for the win. His declaration in the 3rd test was awful and in this one at least 20/30 minutes too late.

England's catching cost them this test.

PeterCS wrote:holcs and others:

I don't agree with that. I think Strauss generally took intelligent decisions. The main problems were:

1) utter and farcical collapse of batting in Innings 2 of Test 1
2) dead and deader pitches thereafter (with a tendency by WIndies to stonewall)
3) a class bowler or possibly two short. (Harmi or Amjad. Hmmmm)
And a bit less crucial than those:
4) some poor drops

And on the specific point of an "overcautious declaration" - I wouldn't have thought a "Sobers declaration" (offering about 215 in 75 overs?) would stand up to much scrutiny.

Balls Peter, (no offense mind)

See my above post. This 3rd innings dec was far too late.

WIFAN wrote:Congrats England on making such a fantastic go at it, they played the more positive cricket and probably deserved a share of the spoils.

But we are an improving team, the team spirit is fantastic and step one on the road of recovery is complete IMHO, we have become much harder to beat.

This must not hide the fact that Devon Smith, Darren Powell and possibly Ryan Hinds should not be in the team at the expense of Barath, Simmons and Bravo Jr.

Fair dues, I think WI absolutely deserved to get spanked in this test for their stinking attitude throughout but i'm happy to see the WI making some progress (even if at the expense of my team). Congrats to both WIFAN & kkf who are both long suffering long time posters....

I agree with just about all of what Gaz says.

Except I guess Christle doesn't need to learn that. He would be more positive, in that situation (where he was playing to win).

Curiously, I agree with JKL too !

Except I wouldn't say "spanked". (Or quite go to "stinking").

Meaning, I wouldn't blame Sarwan, Shiv, Nash etc for the team directive!

Allan D wrote:Delayed declarations here and at Antigua cost England the series. Regaining the Ashes seems a long way off. Moral of this series: Andrew Strauss - great bat, crap captain.

Disagree. They had f*cking ages to bowl the WI out in Antigua. That they failed by one wicket was down to the powder-puff attack that failed to deliver. Four sessions, 128 overs, 10 overs with nine wickets down - mincing about the timing of the declaration is nothing more than trying to point-score with the back-up of hindsight. It's meaningless.

Personally I thought today's declaration was fair enough. All they could do, given the match situation, was give themselves an outside shot at victory. And that's what happened.

JKLever wrote:

WIFAN wrote:Congrats England on making such a fantastic go at it, they played the more positive cricket and probably deserved a share of the spoils.

But we are an improving team, the team spirit is fantastic and step one on the road of recovery is complete IMHO, we have become much harder to beat.

This must not hide the fact that Devon Smith, Darren Powell and possibly Ryan Hinds should not be in the team at the expense of Barath, Simmons and Bravo Jr.

Fair dues, I think WI absolutely deserved to get spanked in this test for their stinking attitude throughout but i'm happy to see the WI making some progress (even if at the expense of my team). Congrats to both WIFAN & kkf who are both long suffering long time posters....

Aye, thats a fair post JK.

Although we let them get away with murder.

The batting is much better from the Windies, and with Bravo back and 1 more decent seamer they will be an effective/competitive side.

PeterCS wrote:holcs and others:

I don't agree with that. I think Strauss generally took intelligent decisions. The main problems were:

1) utter and farcical collapse of batting in Innings 2 of Test 1
2) dead and deader pitches thereafter (with a tendency by WIndies to stonewall)
3) a class bowler or possibly two short. (Harmi or Amjad. Hmmmm)
And a bit less crucial than those:
4) some poor drops

And on the specific point of an "overcautious declaration" - I wouldn't have thought a "Sobers declaration" (offering about 215 in 75 overs?) would stand up to much scrutiny.

With regard to point 3, how do people feel Hoggard would have performed if he had been out here instead of Harmi / Amjad?

Note: Hoggard took 42 wickets at 24.69 for Yorkshire last season

It was such a terrible series that it deserved 0-0. I wouldn't normally begrudge the Windies a series win, but the terrible pitches on offer make me more than a little bitter. I suppose I'm even more bitter at England though so maybe bitterness is just a part of me so completely that only being a little bitter at something constitutes a sort of compliment. I doubt they'll come close to England in England though.

The positives for England in this test was the form of Monty and Anderson. Fair do's to Anderson especially. Tried his guts out right the way through.

Well.

If England had showed half the intent shown today at other times during the series they would have won . . . they didn't, and they didn't.

Still well played today, and congrats to the Windies . . .

Dello wrote:

Allan D wrote:Delayed declarations here and at Antigua cost England the series. Regaining the Ashes seems a long way off. Moral of this series: Andrew Strauss - great bat, crap captain.

Disagree. They had f*cking ages to bowl the WI out in Antigua. That they failed by one wicket was down to the powder-puff attack that failed to deliver. Four sessions, 128 overs, 10 overs with nine wickets down - mincing about the timing of the declaration is nothing more than trying to point-score with the back-up of hindsight. It's meaningless.

Personally I thought today's declaration was fair enough. All they could do, given the match situation, was give themselves an outside shot at victory. And that's what happened.

I thought we declared 50 runs too late in Antigua. It wasn't just the declaration there though, you can throw in the nightwatchman.

Here I agree it was pretty much spot on. It's not as if they were clinging on 9 down.

Infact credit to England today, they played a cracking days cricket IMO.