West Indies v England, 5th Test, Port of Spain, Mar 6 - 10

Dello wrote:

Allan D wrote:Delayed declarations here and at Antigua cost England the series. Regaining the Ashes seems a long way off. Moral of this series: Andrew Strauss - great bat, crap captain.

Personally I thought today's declaration was fair enough. All they could do, given the match situation, was give themselves an outside shot at victory. And that's what happened.

Nope far too conservative in the situation with the Windies mindset, and a one legged Chanders and Gayle, plus batters all going to bat out of position.

Yes I agree our attitude in the field in this test was awful and I hope never to see it again.

IMHO we would have given it a go if JT had been fit for selection, it's just that Gayle has no faith in Powell (he should have lost his faith in him years ago but never mind).

The dropping of Benn was the worst decision of the lot as he would have caused problems on that pitch.

We absolutely have to sort our pitches out, it is time to have confidence in our bowlers and give them a little help.

And on behalf of all cricket fans, I must say BAN Harper and Tiffin, they are not good for our health.

I doubt they'll come close to England in England though.

Well in Jamaica we saw what Jerome Taylor was capable of with a bit of swing around so I doubt that Engand will be queing up to face him on a cloudy day in May.

Congrats to the Windies.

And at least we kept trying to the end and the end was edge of your seat stuff.

holcs wrote:

PeterCS wrote:holcs and others:

I don't agree with that. I think Strauss generally took intelligent decisions. The main problems were:

1) utter and farcical collapse of batting in Innings 2 of Test 1
2) dead and deader pitches thereafter (with a tendency by WIndies to stonewall)
3) a class bowler or possibly two short. (Harmi or Amjad. Hmmmm)
And a bit less crucial than those:
4) some poor drops

And on the specific point of an "overcautious declaration" - I wouldn't have thought a "Sobers declaration" (offering about 215 in 75 overs?) would stand up to much scrutiny.

Balls Peter, (no offense mind)

See my above post. This 3rd innings dec was far too late.

I don't mind having balls. Unless they are thrown at me.

I hear what you say Charlie. I just disagree! Happens.

PeterCS wrote:

holcs wrote:

PeterCS wrote:holcs and others:

I don't agree with that. I think Strauss generally took intelligent decisions. The main problems were:

1) utter and farcical collapse of batting in Innings 2 of Test 1
2) dead and deader pitches thereafter (with a tendency by WIndies to stonewall)
3) a class bowler or possibly two short. (Harmi or Amjad. Hmmmm)
And a bit less crucial than those:
4) some poor drops

And on the specific point of an "overcautious declaration" - I wouldn't have thought a "Sobers declaration" (offering about 215 in 75 overs?) would stand up to much scrutiny.

Balls Peter, (no offense mind)

See my above post. This 3rd innings dec was far too late.

I don't mind having balls. Unless they are thrown at me.

I hear what you say Charlie. I just disagree! Happens.

Indeed. Hence the thriving nature of internet forumming.

Why couldn't Anderson bowl more yorkers at Fidel rather than short or length deliveries outside the off stump?

Stewart just bemoaned Prior's keeping. Out of form, he said, as was mentioned earlier.

Hoggard? Jeez. Who can say? On form, mid 80s and swinging it? Fine. Out of form, low 80s and on flat decks? Hammered, probably. I like Hoggy, and do think there has been little or no progress with the bowling attack since he was dumped from the team. But he's not the answer on his own. You need the magic 4. *A* magic 4.

You may as well say 'How would it have been if Harmison had been on form' or, 'what if Simon Jones was fit and firing'?

Henry wrote:

I doubt they'll come close to England in England though.

Well in Jamaica we saw what Jerome Taylor was capable of with a bit of swing around so I doubt that Engand will be queing up to face him on a cloudy day in May.

Yes given its another series defeat I don't think we can afford to be so relaxed about anyone. Especially as the 2 tests are at Lords were its flat these days & up in Durham early season where it could piss down all game.

Dello wrote:

holcs wrote:Test drawn.

Strauss you negative Fark!!!

Can't fault Strauss for that. What else could he have done?

Declared before lunch and given England an extra 30 or 40 minutes bowling.

This one was "the Sobers declaration" mentioned above.

215 to win. Achieved in just over 50 overs. Decided the series. And Garry copped a lotta stick ....

Henry Nolonga wrote:Why couldn't Anderson bowl more yorkers at Fidel rather than short or length deliveries outside the off stump?

Did you see him bowl at Chris Martin last year?

Well done WI for your first series win for ages. You surprised me quite a bit.

You'll cop it in England when it swings, though.

PeterCS wrote:This one was "the Sobers declaration" mentioned above.

215 to win. Achieved in just over 50 overs. Decided the series. And Garry copped a lotta stick ....

Were they 1-0 down in the last test of a series??

We certainly did not give ourselves enough time and the last 6 overs of our innings only went for 30 runs, whilst Broad and KP used up pointless time trying to get KP's 100.

Would just like to mention that Aleem Dar's hair is awesome.

I find myself in surprisingly cheerful mood about the England performance.

No rose-coloured glasses. Just think there's a lot of work to do, BUT also a bit to build on. James Anderson may after all be a rightful "one of the four" that Jilly properly mentions. Monty may not be dead. Swann is good.

And - nailing my colours (though not balls) to the mast - most of all, I like Strauss as captain. He was out second knock being positive, and he keeps thinking, generally intelligently.

Prior MOTM! heh heh heh.

Declarations are easy with hindsight, aren't they? Could Strauss have had men around the bat defending 210 or so? Would the Windies have blocked the shit out of it and basically defending themselves to death chasing 210 in 70 overs? Would England have bowled as well, would the pitch have been quite the same (it seemed to deteriorate noticeably in the last session but not much before)?

It makes me laugh how the forum experts are all there after the event. Looking back I don't see many bemoaning the timing of the declaration at the time. Actually, I can't see any. JK and I had a bit of a tete-a-tete saying it was about right. Nothing else. It's easy to say we'd have won and all that but I have no problem with the declaration. The ARG declaration was a disgrace but this one was as balanced as we could have hoped for.

Besides which, we'd have gained maybe four overs (losing two to the change-over) for declaring half an hour earlier (Windies over-rate was 11.6 so they bowled 6 in half hour - that being the number we lost). Would that have been enough, considering we couldn't prise out the last wicket at the ARG in much more than that.

Yorkie Jill wrote:Prior MOTM! heh heh heh.

Where's BBB?

PeterCS wrote:I find myself in surprisingly cheerful mood about the England performance.

No rose-coloured glasses. Just think there's a lot of work to do, BUT also a bit to build on. James Anderson may after all be a rightful "one of the four" that Jilly properly mentions. Monty may not be dead. Swann is good.

And - nailing my colours (though not balls) to the mast - most of all, I like Strauss as captain. He was out second knock being positive, and he keeps thinking, generally intelligently.

Johnson will need to target Straussy's fingers come ashes time . . .

Rob I wrote:Well done WI for your first series win for ages. You surprised me quite a bit.

You'll cop it in England when it swings, though.

Err, who copped it in Jamaica when it swung?

Pitches - Windies have had a problem with slow, low tracks over the last decade or so. They really need to get more consistent bounce in there, more like the 80s wickets. Englands last tour here in '04 was the exception rather than the rule as far as pitches are concerned.

Although, all that said - it seems the Jamaica pitch was a good cricket wicket, and the 2nd & 4th Tests were on slow but decentish tracks that a good side would have taken 20 wickets on. It was only the 3rd Test that was dire.

For the return series in England - Edwards has bowled with real pace and Taylor is not to be under-estimated. Get Dwayne Bravo and tall back-up seamer in there and Windies could well outgun England. England will need to be on top of their game to avoid another defeat.

Augustus wrote:It was such a terrible series that it deserved 0-0. I wouldn't normally begrudge the Windies a series win, but the terrible pitches on offer make me more than a little bitter. I suppose I'm even more bitter at England though so maybe bitterness is just a part of me so completely that only being a little bitter at something constitutes a sort of compliment. I doubt they'll come close to England in England though.

It's a weird, unsatisfactory feeling, this series defeat. Usually - and it's increasingly usually - there's the feeling that England were at least beaten by the side that played better cricket.

But it's hard to know what to make of this series. Both sides were as bad/good as each other, the pitches were an embarrassment to a sport that's supposed to be a battle between bat and ball, the officiating was so random and incomprehensibly risible that at times it was like watching the worst comedy sketch in the world, and the West Indies' overt negativity in this final Test really leaves a bad aftertaste.

The entire four-game series came down to one bad session from England's batsmen.

Seemed like a lot of effort over the past few weeks for just one, tiny, decisive snippet of decent cricket.

Anyway, congratulations to the Windies and their long-suffering fans. Although how many new fans they'll bring to the game if they continue to shape up like that at home is anyone's guess.

tac wrote:Well.

If England had showed half the intent shown today at other times during the series they would have won . . . they didn't, and they didn't.

You can't have watched much of it. I really don't think you can fault their effort. I think each and everyone put in 100%. Even Monty. Cough.

WoW!!! Kudos to England for almost pulling off a miracle and retain the Wisden trophy.

Sounds like KP was at his best.