Re: Your main reason for not rating Kallis

by taipan Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:33

Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

Er? Kallis held the team together for years. Tugga was selected as a bowler?

by tac Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:34

Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

Fark me, who the fark is trying to compare Kallis with AB? Kallis would average 35-40 playing against the teams AB faced . . .

by embee Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:39

Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

He can't have been picked for his batting at the start of his career ...20 Tests until he averaged 30

by Zat Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:40

taipan wrote:
Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

Er? Kallis held the team together for years. Tugga was selected as a bowler?

Kallis was captain for years while the team was full of inexperienced (and in some cases unwarranted) selections? Give me strength...

Steve Waugh - debuted at 20, batted down the list, part of the quest for an all rounder. His batting was not terribly highly regarded, and took 42 of his eventual 92 test wickets in his first 30 (of 168) Tests. (Oh shit, that sounds like I've just described Ronnie MacDonald)

by Zat Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:41

tac wrote:
Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

Fark me, who the fark is trying to compare Kallis with AB? Kallis would average 35-40 playing against the teams AB faced . . .

Here's your answer, taccy.

taipan wrote:Hey I just noticed that Kallis got to 10 000 quicker than both Border and Waugh.

by tac Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:42

Zat wrote:
taipan wrote:
Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

Er? Kallis held the team together for years. Tugga was selected as a bowler?
Kallis was captain for years while the team was full of inexperienced (and in some cases unwarranted) selections? Give me strength...

Steve Waugh - debuted at 20, batted down the list, part of the quest for an all rounder. His batting was not terribly highly regarded, and took 42 of his eventual 92 test wickets in his first 30 (of 168) Tests. (Oh shit, that sounds like I've just described Ronnie MacDonald)

hehehe

by Zat Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:44

Very difficult to re-write cricketing history. Unless you're Australia's NSP.

by taipan Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:45

Zat wrote:
taipan wrote:
Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

Er? Kallis held the team together for years. Tugga was selected as a bowler?
Kallis was captain for years while the team was full of inexperienced (and in some cases unwarranted) selections? Give me strength...

Steve Waugh - debuted at 20, batted down the list, part of the quest for an all rounder. His batting was not terribly highly regarded, and took 42 of his eventual 92 test wickets in his first 30 (of 168) Tests. (Oh shit, that sounds like I've just described Ronnie MacDonald)

calm down Zat, I wasn't running down AB. No Kallis wasn't captain but he had to hold the team together when it was also full of unwarranted selections. (quota systen remember)

And btw Kallis was also 20 on debut.

by tac Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:47

Zat wrote:
tac wrote:
Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

Fark me, who the fark is trying to compare Kallis with AB? Kallis would average 35-40 playing against the teams AB faced . . .
Here's your answer, taccy.
taipan wrote:Hey I just noticed that Kallis got to 10 000 quicker than both Border and Waugh.

Ah! To be fair, it's not really a comparison . . . just a pointless bit of trivia . . .

by Zat Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:51

taipan wrote:
Zat wrote:
taipan wrote:
Zat wrote:
Rob I wrote:AB and Tugga didn't get 9000 of theirs against the Bangles and Zimmers.
Fat Jack wasn't trying to hold a team together that had been in the throes of self-destructing in the early days, and wasn't picked sooner than he should have been, and primarily as a bowler at the start of his career either.

Er? Kallis held the team together for years. Tugga was selected as a bowler?
Kallis was captain for years while the team was full of inexperienced (and in some cases unwarranted) selections? Give me strength...

Steve Waugh - debuted at 20, batted down the list, part of the quest for an all rounder. His batting was not terribly highly regarded, and took 42 of his eventual 92 test wickets in his first 30 (of 168) Tests. (Oh shit, that sounds like I've just described Ronnie MacDonald)

calm down Zat, I wasn't running down AB. No Kallis wasn't captain but he had to hold the team together when it was also full of unwarranted selections. (quota systen remember)

And btw Kallis was also 20 on debut.

taips, just pointing out how it was. Australia was absolute gobshite through most of the 80s, but especially when AB was first made skipper. We went for at least a year without a Test win, and lost a home Test series against NZ. Those times bring back bad memories.

by taipan Thu 12 Mar 2009, 06:54

Fair enough Zat but Kallis has also had his problems.

Personally i think anyone you gets to 10 000 should be complimented, not bagged like the OE jingoistic qunt who started this thread is trying to do.

by Zat Thu 12 Mar 2009, 07:08

Now don't go on about who started it. Batqunt will just blame me.

Wrongly.

Again.

by embee Thu 12 Mar 2009, 07:13

This is a poor thread , Zat ...you should be ashamed at starting it

should probably give yourself 5 sheep rooting emoticons as punishment

by Zat Thu 12 Mar 2009, 07:16

Can't find the sheep one right now. Will this do?
Your main reason for not rating Kallis - Page 4 Smilie11

by embee Thu 12 Mar 2009, 07:19

Zat wrote:Can't find the sheep one right now. Will this do?

Has anyone seen Smerky?

by taipan Thu 12 Mar 2009, 07:53

Quickest to 10 000 in ODI's

Player Inns
SR Tendulkar (India) 259
SC Ganguly (Asia/India)263
RT Ponting (Aus/ICC) 266
JH Kallis (Afr/ICC/SA) 272
BC Lara (ICC/WI) 278
R Dravid (Asia/ICC/India) 287
Inzamam-ul-Haq (Pak) 299
ST Jayasuriya (Asia/SL) 328

by Mick Sawyer Thu 12 Mar 2009, 09:29

embee wrote:
Zat wrote:Can't find the sheep one right now. Will this do?
Has anyone seen Smerky?

snigger > chortle > snorfle

by The One Thu 12 Mar 2009, 09:30

taipan wrote:Quickest to 10 000 in ODI's

Player Inns
SR Tendulkar (India) 259
SC Ganguly (Asia/India)263
RT Ponting (Aus/ICC) 266
JH Kallis (Afr/ICC/SA) 272
BC Lara (ICC/WI) 278
R Dravid (Asia/ICC/India) 287
Inzamam-ul-Haq (Pak) 299
ST Jayasuriya (Asia/SL) 328

so ganguly > ponting/kallis/lara?

by JGK Thu 12 Mar 2009, 09:35

The figures don't lie.

by Paul Keating Thu 12 Mar 2009, 11:03

Based on matches is not a good indicator.

Strike rate is better.

by Guest Thu 12 Mar 2009, 11:51

Kallis would walk into any team in the world right now but I don't think he would make anyones ATG 11.

by taipan Thu 12 Mar 2009, 12:02

vilkrang wrote:Kallis would walk into any team in the world right now but I don't think he would make anyones ATG 11.

Fair comment, but how many recent players would?

by Guest Thu 12 Mar 2009, 12:54

To be fair, Fattis might probably have been picked for Australia in 1986 ahead of Tugga (being a bit quicker) but how he would have gone as a batter against WI, the Paksters and Hadlee is anyone's guess.

by embee Thu 12 Mar 2009, 13:00

taipan wrote:
vilkrang wrote:Kallis would walk into any team in the world right now but I don't think he would make anyones ATG 11.

Fair comment, but how many recent players would?

How recent you talking ?

TGM
tgm
Gilly
BCL
SRT
MuMu

All have claims

by taipan Thu 12 Mar 2009, 13:03

embee wrote:
taipan wrote:
vilkrang wrote:Kallis would walk into any team in the world right now but I don't think he would make anyones ATG 11.

Fair comment, but how many recent players would?

How recent you talking ?

TGM
tgm
Gilly
BCL
SRT
MuMu

All have claims

Recent enough.

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