Pakistan v South Africa, T20 WC S/F, Nottingham, June 18

Mickey Arthur actually mentioned Chokers first.

Saffers looked pig sick...

Tough cheese, on yer way sunshiiiiine...

Listened to a bit on the radio as I had stuff to be done and Dermot Reeve was pretty much on the ball when he said it was always going to be hard against Afridi & Gul so they should've really gone for it in the first 10.

taipan wrote:

Dello wrote:As Bowie might sing: "ch-ch-ch-ch-chokers"

I wondered which qunt would say chokers first.

Was going for TO, but Jay you win.

To be fair it's not like the title isn't warranted... Even Nasser mentioned it.

In their defense though I always think that if a team in any sport gets a tag such as "chokers" it will always affect the players because in the back of their mind they will be thinking "shit, not again". It's why I can't see England ever winning a penalty shoot out at a major championship (unless the other team are diabolical). They have only been bad at penalties since losing the Euro 96 shootout (they scored their first 5 in that shoot out, usually enough to beat any team other than the f*cking Germans).

vilkrang wrote:

taipan wrote:

Dello wrote:As Bowie might sing: "ch-ch-ch-ch-chokers"

I wondered which qunt would say chokers first.

Was going for TO, but Jay you win.

To be fair it's not like the title isn't warranted... Even Nasser mentioned it.

In their defense though I always think that if a team in any sport gets a tag such as "chokers" it will always affect the players because in the back of their mind they will be thinking "shit, not again".

Fair, but to lose by 7 in a T20 lottery semi is pushing it a bit.

Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

taipan wrote:

The One wrote:the only interest left in this tournament is to see what new method of choking do the saffricans devise

Yep, the Indians have already done theirs.

FFS, this is like a bowler trying to sledge a batsman after being hit for 6.

May be you should've taken him easy rather than abusing him taips

JKLever wrote:Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

Don't be so sensible.

They choked.

I don't agree about the Big C.

Miscalculated maybe, but Pakistan had the greater flair on the day. And in Afridi and Gul (despite fielding comedy) the two outstanding performers.

Hot favourite gone though. I knew I should have followed my hunch after their defeat of Aus and put a bit of dosh on SL. ... oh well.

JKLever wrote:Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

Sage, if we had choked I would the first to admit it.

JKLever wrote:Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

They were ahead of the game after 5 overs of their reply. Then they totally went into their shells after losing a couple of quick wickets, and wasted the middle overs to the extent that they were almost out of it before they started to show any sort of urgency.

beamer wrote:

JKLever wrote:Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

They were ahead of the game after 5 overs of their reply. Then they totally went into their shells after losing a couple of quick wickets, and wasted the middle overs to the extent that they were almost out of it before they started to show any sort of urgency.

Yeah but thats the general pattern of all the games in this tournament isn't it? Where it becomes increasingly difficult to score after the powerplays against decent qualiity spin. We've seen how 150 can be defended - especially at Trent Bridge & Lords.

Believe me if they choked I'd be the first to laugh at them (not anything especially against SA but just because its bloody funny) but just think that it was always on the cards that the 2 pak spinners would pull back the scoring rate.

If anything SA lost it with the ball, they were capable of restricting Pak below 150 imo

JKLever wrote:

beamer wrote:

JKLever wrote:Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

They were ahead of the game after 5 overs of their reply. Then they totally went into their shells after losing a couple of quick wickets, and wasted the middle overs to the extent that they were almost out of it before they started to show any sort of urgency.

Yeah but thats the general pattern of all the games in this tournament isn't it? Where it becomes increasingly difficult to score after the powerplays against decent qualiity spin. We've seen how 150 can be defended - especially at Trent Bridge & Lords.

Believe me if they choked I'd be the first to laugh at them (not anything especially against SA but just because its bloody funny) but just think that it was always on the cards that the 2 pak spinners would pull back the scoring rate.

If anything SA lost it with the ball, they were capable of restricting Pak below 150 imo

Actually we did.

In hindsight the toss was crucial, then Afridi had a blinder.

Another strange pattern is teams losing games batting second or recording moderate totals batting first, and ending up with 5 wickets in hand. Surely you swing the bat a bit earlier or go for some ambitious twos to put pressure on the fielders and risk the odd run out? We criticised England for their approach in the middle of the innings but the two pre-tournament favourites have now gone out the same way.

True, possibly the wickets prepared had something to do with this.

taipan wrote:

JKLever wrote:Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

Sage, if we had choked I would the first to admit it.

Yes ofcourse you would.

taipan wrote:True, possibly the wickets prepared had something to do with this.

I think the pitch at Trent Bridge in particular has been pretty poor for T20 cricket to be honest, and Lord's not that much better. OK you want to give the bowlers some sort of chance, but not see world-class batsmen unable to hit the slower bowlers off the square and scores below 150 defended with something to spare. It just gets like watching 50-over cricket.

The Oval has provided the best balance, we haven't seen ridiculously high scores but we've seen a surface where good batsmen and good bowlers can shine. Shame the final won't be played there.

doremi wrote:

taipan wrote:

JKLever wrote:Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

Sage, if we had choked I would the first to admit it.

Yes ofcourse you would.

Yes.

You are calling a 7 run loss in a T20 a choke, are you?

PeterCS wrote:I don't agree about the Big C.

I knew I should have followed my hunch after their defeat of Aus and put a bit of dosh on SL. ... oh well.

Agree ... wasn't a choke ... Saffers did all they could against some bloody accurate and clever bowling (cept the younf kid who came on with his offies and was taken for 15 in his over!).

Noooooooooo to S/L Petey ...

I had a hunch after Windies lost to England in the warm up game that they would win it. Was so close to dumping a tenner on them.

I'm praying they don't win it now.

I have actually quite enjoyed this tournament, more so than the last ODI world cup. They should make this one at least every 2 years though, it won't gain any prestige at all if it's held again within 12 months.

taipan wrote:
You are calling a 7 run loss in a T20 a choke, are you?

According to do-boy's reckoning, that's only "just" losing a game by a small margin !!

taipan wrote:

doremi wrote:

taipan wrote:

JKLever wrote:Surely to choke you have to be ahead of the game and in control of it and then stuff it up?

SA were neither of those things tonight...

Sage, if we had choked I would the first to admit it.

Yes ofcourse you would.

Yes.

You are calling a 7 run loss in a T20 a choke, are you?

Yes, chasing 150 in 20 overs with that batting line-up, with 7 wickets in hand until the 17th over is a choke. It not by how many you lose, it's the way you lose. You lost by more that that in the last T20 WC and got knocked out. Was still a choke.

And cricinfo also agree with me, I see.

I find it very chokeresque that the only match in the entire tournament that if they lost would knock them out, they lost. It might not have been as big a moment as 1999 but it was still a choke in my eyes. They were massive favourites and after 5 overs (batting) were cruising.

And if SL win and go through, I'm supporting the Pakistanis.