Re: BLee - no balls.

by Fred Nerk Tue 23 Oct 2007, 09:50

"he can't out-think batsmen"

He struggles to out-think most cricket bats.

by Brass Monkey Tue 23 Oct 2007, 10:01

lardbucket wrote:I was annoyed with the minnow-bashing show-pony then (for keeping Reiffel and Fleming out of the team) and he's done little since with the ball to enthral.

I think he will only keep his Test place if his batting becomes more solid. He could still be a useful lower-order all-rounder. I don't think he can maintain a place solely as a bowler. He can't bowl a good long spell, he can't out-think batsmen, he bowls dross when we need him to be tight.

Aye to the bold bit, not surprised you'd beef-hooked.

Aye to the rest too.

by Henry Tue 23 Oct 2007, 10:46

Just checked his statsguru results- Averages 40 with the ball against England after 18 tests, 31 against India after 4 tests, 20 against New Zealand after 6 tests, 46 against Pakistan after 3 tests, 30 against South Africa after 12 tests, 22 against the Windies after 9 tests.

Interestingly, he also averages 47 against Bangladesh after 4 tests, and 37 against Zimbabwe after 2 tests, so he actually struggles more against the minnows.

by skully Tue 23 Oct 2007, 10:53

JGK wrote:So we're agreed then - Lee is a pile of poo who has inexplicably taken 231 test wickets.

Aye, but the selectors still inexplicably get a woodie over him. And that's without an imbalance of Dubbers on the NSP. Whadya gonna do?? [shrugs]

by noelene Tue 23 Oct 2007, 11:03

Bangladesh is not that surprising.He played the 2 tests in Bangladesh where he said he was running on fumes,after an exhausting itinerary.I think Brett Lee was the only bowler who played in all the games 2005/2006.He was due to be rested in an ODI,but McGrath pulled out.He certainly deserves praise for the amount of bowling he does.
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBowl.asp?PlayerId=2205&CountryCode=10

by tac Tue 23 Oct 2007, 11:06

noelene wrote:Bangladesh is not that surprising.He played the 2 tests in Bangladesh where he said he was running on fumes,after an exhausting itinerary.I think Brett Lee was the only bowler who played in all the games 2005/2006.He was due to be rested in an ODI,but McGrath pulled out.He certainly deserves praise for the amount of bowling he does.
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBowl.asp?PlayerId=2205&CountryCode=10

Are you Mark Nicholarse?

by Fred Nerk Tue 23 Oct 2007, 11:08

Most of the Kiwi wickets came in that 0-0 series after Ashes 2001 when the NZ strategy was literally to bore Australia into submission, only playing balls from McGrath and Warne that might hit the stumps. They had to score runs against somebody, so they hit out against the lesser threat of Lee and a few went down deep square's throat.

by lardbucket Tue 23 Oct 2007, 11:09

'Gosh, he's so fast, ooooh, that's really really fast, he's all class, and so blond, and so purdy. Pass the tissues, Peter.

So, after that first over from Brett Lee, which was really exciting, mostly around 90 mph, Bangladesh is 1-22'.

by noelene Tue 23 Oct 2007, 13:12

tac wrote:
noelene wrote:Bangladesh is not that surprising.He played the 2 tests in Bangladesh where he said he was running on fumes,after an exhausting itinerary.I think Brett Lee was the only bowler who played in all the games 2005/2006.He was due to be rested in an ODI,but McGrath pulled out.He certainly deserves praise for the amount of bowling he does.
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBowl.asp?PlayerId=2205&CountryCode=10

Are you Mark Nicholarse?

Insults will not affect me.I still haven't seen an answer to my question as to who(fast bowler) is better than Lee as far as stats go these days?Do you all only get on as long as the person agrees with what you are saying?

by Brass Monkey Tue 23 Oct 2007, 13:18

noelene wrote:Insults will not affect me.I still haven't seen an answer to my question as to who(fast bowler) is better than Lee as far as stats go these days?Do you all only get on as long as the person agrees with what you are saying?

What, do you need a similar amount of wickets or something?

I'll go for Matthew Hoggard, Steve Harmison and Flintoff any time he's not injured. That's just being short-sighted English.

by Henry Tue 23 Oct 2007, 13:38

Makhaya Ntini, Matthew Hoggard, Andrew Flintoff, Shaun Pollock, Stuart Clark, Mohammad Asif, Chaminda Vaas, Shane Bond.....

Shall I keep going?

by JGK Tue 23 Oct 2007, 13:40

Batfink Begins wrote:
noelene wrote:Insults will not affect me.I still haven't seen an answer to my question as to who(fast bowler) is better than Lee as far as stats go these days?Do you all only get on as long as the person agrees with what you are saying?

What, do you need a similar amount of wickets or something?

I'll go for Matthew Hoggard, Steve Harmison and Flintoff any time he's not injured. That's just being short-sighted English.

Glenn McGrath, Stuart Clark, Jason Gillespie, Mkaya Ntini, Sean Pollock, Shane Bond, Mohammed Asif, Simon Jones, Chaminda Vaas...

Not sure about Harmison though.

by Shoeshine Tue 23 Oct 2007, 13:51

Actually, has Lee's record improved recently? I always remembered him with an average in the high 30's, but when I look now, it's just over 31, which isn't THAT bad, really.

by Henry Tue 23 Oct 2007, 13:53

Actually, has Lee's record improved recently?

Perhaps it's improved marginally since the 2005 Ashes, but in general, he's still been averaging around 34 runs a wicket since 2001.

by noelene Tue 23 Oct 2007, 14:38

Henry wrote:Makhaya Ntini, Matthew Hoggard, Andrew Flintoff, Shaun Pollock, Stuart Clark,

Ntini, Chaminda Vaas, Shane Bond.....

Shall I keep going?

Not all of them are fast bowlers.
Ntini,I will give you,but his average at home is
22.54 strike rate
42.13 away it is
38.02 ave
70.59 strike rate.Those South African pitches help his cause.
Shane Bond has not played enough to judge.
Hoggard(not that fast)
average 30 strike rate 55
Lee average
31.61 strike rate 53.16

by Henry Tue 23 Oct 2007, 14:50

Not all of them are fast bowlers.

Err, yes they are. Not as fast as Lee, but they all bowl seam up with a decent length run up. Pace doesnt always take wickets.

by Gildas Tue 23 Oct 2007, 16:17

noelene wrote:
Henry wrote:Makhaya Ntini, Matthew Hoggard, Andrew Flintoff, Shaun Pollock, Stuart Clark,

Ntini, Chaminda Vaas, Shane Bond.....

Shall I keep going?

Not all of them are fast bowlers.
Ntini,I will give you,but his average at home is
22.54 strike rate
42.13 away it is
38.02 ave
70.59 strike rate.Those South African pitches help his cause.
Shane Bond has not played enough to judge.
Hoggard(not that fast)
average 30 strike rate 55
Lee average
31.61 strike rate 53.16

Granted the bare stats dont look that different for Hoggard and Lee, but Hoggard only really settled into the england side after he got an extended run, from the winter of 2003 onwards. After 17 tests he was averaging 35, whereas Lee was averaging 24.
Hoggards record sincethe 03/04 winter tours stands comparison with any current pace bowler: 171wkts@ 28.58 eco 3.2, sr 52.7.
It certainly places him infront of Lee:106wkts@ 33.92 eco 3.63, sr 56

by Brass Monkey Tue 23 Oct 2007, 17:49

Don't even think Hoggard v Lee is even worth discussing. Hoggard's taken wickets everywhere and had crucial impact on quite a few England matches. Bung really hasn't. I'd prefer Ntini any day of the week and since he's got 313 wickets at 27.5 in 77 Tests. That's more contribution, home or not. Hilfenhaus looks better. Clark definitely is. Polly easy.

by Henry Tue 23 Oct 2007, 17:57

Even Shoaib is/was better than Lee.

by Brass Monkey Tue 23 Oct 2007, 18:05

Henry wrote:Even Shoaib is/was better than Lee.

By quite a way.

by lardbucket Tue 23 Oct 2007, 20:32

'My grandmother with a stick of rhubarb could play Brett Lee, with her eyes closed!'

He can bat and field a bit, though. He's Australia's Gilo.

by doremi Tue 23 Oct 2007, 21:09

The wickets he took against India in his first two tests was probably against one of the worst touring sides India had ever sent away from home in recent history. Wasim Akram was talking about this tour in a program on TV on which he talked about a conversation he had with Tendulkar who apparently described Lee as "fast but with no consistent accuracy". Or something along those lines. Akram seemed to like Lee.

by doctorspin Tue 23 Oct 2007, 21:22

noelene wrote:
tac wrote:
noelene wrote:Bangladesh is not that surprising.He played the 2 tests in Bangladesh where he said he was running on fumes,after an exhausting itinerary.I think Brett Lee was the only bowler who played in all the games 2005/2006.He was due to be rested in an ODI,but McGrath pulled out.He certainly deserves praise for the amount of bowling he does.
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBowl.asp?PlayerId=2205&CountryCode=10

Are you Mark Nicholarse?

Insults will not affect me.I still haven't seen an answer to my question as to who(fast bowler) is better than Lee as far as stats go these days?Do you all only get on as long as the person agrees with what you are saying?

No-one gets on here regardless of anything. It's what makes DELLOLAND! the paradise that it is.

by doremi Tue 23 Oct 2007, 21:25

doctorspin wrote:
noelene wrote:
tac wrote:
noelene wrote:Bangladesh is not that surprising.He played the 2 tests in Bangladesh where he said he was running on fumes,after an exhausting itinerary.I think Brett Lee was the only bowler who played in all the games 2005/2006.He was due to be rested in an ODI,but McGrath pulled out.He certainly deserves praise for the amount of bowling he does.
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBowl.asp?PlayerId=2205&CountryCode=10

Are you Mark Nicholarse?

Insults will not affect me.I still haven't seen an answer to my question as to who(fast bowler) is better than Lee as far as stats go these days?Do you all only get on as long as the person agrees with what you are saying?
No-one gets on here regardless of anything. It's what makes DELLOLAND! the paradise that it is.

Yeah, make your point and ignore the jibes. Or don't ignore them and start a fight which is much more enjoyable anyways.

by please don't yell Wed 24 Oct 2007, 01:23

Hoggard is far better than lee, i wouldn't say that about harmi though.

Harmi is another one who built his reputation on bashing some poor teams.

His record against the better batting team's is even worse than lee's.

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