It's time to dump Owais Shah

I know there's a lot more issues with the one-day side than one player, but I just can't see what the value of persisting with him any longer is. Of course the run-outs are what everyone takes notice of, and we can't have someone who costs his own wicket or someone else's in this way virtually every game. But when did he last make a really significant contribution?

He can hit boundaries, he can hit sixes, but his strike rate is still ordinary largely because his running between the wickets is crap and he doesn't seem to find the gaps and rotate the strike enough. His Test career never took off, he never looked that comfortable when he was out there and he's probably slipped some way down the pecking order now. He's had his moments in limited overs cricket but at 30 or 31 he's not really going to improve now so it must be time to move on and give someone else a go?

Over-rated. Got all the shots but he ALWAYS stops and looks where the ball is going before responding to a partners call.

Ten times better than Bopara and one of our best batsmen of recent years. Has had one bad match and one average match, exacerbated by two terrible methods of dismissal. He has looked a million dollars until he's got out each time and scored quite quickly.

Dropping him would be mental in a side of crap players, far better to work on his 'issues' than to drop him.

Hypocrite Gus. You don't rate Anderson yet he has problems which can also be worked on, yet you would never pick.


Make up your mind FFS.

Hardly. James Anderson has 29 wickets @ 45 over a two-year period.

Owais Shah's got a respectable average of 34 batting mostly from six, with a decent s/r. Not outstanding but it makes him one of our best batsman in the time-frame. I cannot actually find a worse bowler than Anderson.

Of course the Shah average doesn't take into account how many times he's dented his batting partners average by running them out!

There's always been issues with Shah the 'team man'. As far back as 10 years ago, Mike Gatting labelled him a cocky, selfish little bugger who didn't listen to anyone and was too obsessed with numero uno. Duncan Fletcher was wary of him as well. Not so much his ability but his attitude and his ability to fit into a team environment.

I think he's a bit of a weird sort of bloke- Doesn't really get too close to anyone, and no one can quite figure him out. He also tends to over complicate the game at times. As Nasser said the other day- He always has his theories. His technique often changes from week to week.

I do rate his ability, however. In form, he is an asset to England. The running between the wickets I think goes back to my first paragraph. He's a bit of a 'me against the world' kind of guy and he has some trust issues.

He's actually been one of our better ODI and T20 batsmen in the last year, though.

beamer wrote:But when did he last make a really significant contribution?

Can't be bothered to look it up, but if anyone can, I'd bet he's in the top two batsmen for the majority of all the ODI series he's played since 2007.

He can hit boundaries, he can hit sixes, but his strike rate is still ordinary largely because his running between the wickets is crap and he doesn't seem to find the gaps and rotate the strike enough.

It's 79. The best of all England's batsmen in this series, and bettered only by Flintoff (88) and Pietersen (87) of the current set-up (although Flintoff's more than likely finished). A 30-ball 50 in his next game and he'd be within a couple of clicks of Pietersen's rate.

I don't disagree that he's a pain in the arse - a classic county product of someone who has glided through his career off the back of his talent alone and hasn't bothered to develop any other aspect of his game to a high standard as he's made a very comfortable living for himself without needing a full compliment of skills and disciplines.

But he's one of our better bats and his obvious flaws pale into insignificance against the far bigger problems that riddle the batting line-up: lack of runs, selfish, slow scoring. And Matt Prior, promoted to number three - his reward for being total shitehouse in one-dayers thus far.

Chivalry Augustus wrote:Ten times better than Bopara and one of our best batsmen of recent years. Has had one bad match and one average match, exacerbated by two terrible methods of dismissal. He has looked a million dollars until he's got out each time and scored quite quickly.

Dropping him would be mental in a side of crap players, far better to work on his 'issues' than to drop him.

I just think that it's too late in his career to sort out these issues, he perhaps could have been worked on in his younger days but he was generally in and out of the setup so perhaps opportunities were missed.

Whether or not he's a positive influence on the side is something that only those on the inside would know, I have my doubts, and I know there's perhaps players with worse stats in the team but he can no longer be seen as a work in progress or an investment for the future. So does he offer enough right now to be worth persisting with? I'm not convinced. I'd rather go with a few young players with no baggage, particularly if this format is on the way out, they might develop into good Test and/or T20 players.

Shah is not the main problem. Bopara was promoted to opener I assume to play his shots and get England off to a good start, but at the moment he is neither scoring quickly nor making big scores. Prior was promoted to number 3 despite a List A average of 25 after over 100 games, and he's playing to his average, and James Anderson is neither taking wickets nor keeping it tight with the new ball, and it's been like that for over a year now. So that's 3 pieces of dead wood right there. Shah at least scores quickly, so he has one positive point about him.

Quite a few batsmen in country cricket list A games have shocking low averages in the 20's

So, why we're surprised when England become gashers I don't know.

Cookies domestic list A average is over 40 now - we would probably do better with him opening than Bopara.

James Taylor averages 40-odd; get him in .

Chivalry Augustus wrote:James Taylor averages 40-odd; get him in .

And 50 in FC cricket......... get him on the plane to SA!

For the record, Shah's been run out six times in 56 ODI innings. Not a lot, given the frenetic nature of the format in the closing overs (where he's spent a lot of his career), but that doesn't mean he's not a terrible runner.

I don't suppose it's possible to find out how many partners he's been responsible for running out!

Again, I think that's more a perception than a reality. A lot of near misses rather than actual run outs.

I do recall Pietersen running himself out once, batting with Shah, and it was totally his own fault: set off for a suicidal single, Shah refused straight away, Pietersen took no notice and kept on going - then seemed to expect Shah to sacrifice himself when they both ended up at the same end, but Ace wasn't having any of it.

Went on to score his only ODI hundred...

Pretty good fielding and bowling. Just lousy batting. Sort it.

I mean, I'm all for Dello's stoic defense of Ace, but to say he's anything but a shit runner is pushing it to the boundaries of 'boy band adulation'.

*throws underpants*

Dello wrote:*throws underpants*

Thought they were usually reserved for his horsiness?

Now we know what Dellboy uses for a towel.