Ponting at # 6

Gary 111 wrote:

beamer wrote:If he's not up to batting in the top 5 any more you have to wonder what he still offers the team that justifies them keeping him in, other than experience.

Of course he won't want to go out on this low note in terms of Test cricket but he's in danger of being remembered as much for the decline as for his key role in one of the best teams there has ever been. He was too young to retire at the same time as Warne and co. but looking back he might wish he'd gone a couple of years sooner, when they were still hanging onto top spot through momentum and winning habit.

That's part of the danger in judging someone just by batting average. Other players like Viv also carried on past their prime as they were still good enough to get in the team.

That's why someone with half a career like Hussey or Lehmann will tend to have a better batting average.

It would be interesting to compare great (and a few not so great) players' peak batting averages, from say 50th Test onwards to discount the early fluctuations, and see how they compare with where they ended up.

beamer wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:

beamer wrote:If he's not up to batting in the top 5 any more you have to wonder what he still offers the team that justifies them keeping him in, other than experience.

Of course he won't want to go out on this low note in terms of Test cricket but he's in danger of being remembered as much for the decline as for his key role in one of the best teams there has ever been. He was too young to retire at the same time as Warne and co. but looking back he might wish he'd gone a couple of years sooner, when they were still hanging onto top spot through momentum and winning habit.

That's part of the danger in judging someone just by batting average. Other players like Viv also carried on past their prime as they were still good enough to get in the team.

That's why someone with half a career like Hussey or Lehmann will tend to have a better batting average.

It would be interesting to compare great (and a few not so great) players' peak batting averages, from say 50th Test onwards to discount the early fluctuations, and see how they compare with where they ended up.

Bradman: 206 runs @ 103

No matter what perameters you set - the little bastard always comes out top.

80th innings onwards...

Bradman: 0 runs @ 0.00

There you go Bas.

Zat wrote:80th innings onwards...

Bradman: 0 runs @ 0.00

There you go Bas.

TAYPOC.

peak average after 50th test for batsmen with current/career averages above 50

bradman - 101.39
sutcliffe - 62.67
barrington - 60.66
hammond - 61.71
sobers - 63.77
sangakarra - 57.25
hobbs - 61.28
kallis - 58.20
tendulkar - 58.72
hutton - 61.71
samaraweera - 54.25
g chappell - 55.58
jayawardene - 54.67
sehwag - 54.71
ponting - 59.99
lara - 54.09
miandad - 58.56
dravid - 58.75
moyo - 56.65
a flower - 56.60
hussey - 52.83
gavaskar - 57.52
s waugh - 51.87
hayden - 58.97
border - 53.70
younis khan - 51.80
iva richards - 58.78

see current/career averages here

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282910.html

What about 80th innings onwards TO?

Surprising Lara peaked at "only" 54, I'm sure he was averaging around 60 at one point (immediately after first world record) - may not have played 50 Tests then but would have thought he would be higher when he did get to that point.

he was averaging near about 50 after 50 tests. dipped below 50 and then finished his career with a flourish

The One wrote:peak average after 50th test for batsmen with current/career averages above 50

bradman - 101.39
sutcliffe - 62.67
barrington - 60.66
hammond - 61.71
sobers - 63.77
sangakarra - 57.25
hobbs - 61.28
kallis - 58.20
tendulkar - 58.72
hutton - 61.71
samaraweera - 54.25
g chappell - 55.58
jayawardene - 54.67
sehwag - 54.71
ponting - 59.99
lara - 54.09
miandad - 58.56
dravid - 58.75
moyo - 56.65
a flower - 56.60
hussey - 52.83
gavaskar - 57.52
s waugh - 51.87
hayden - 58.97
border - 53.70
younis khan - 51.80
iva richards - 58.78

see current/career averages here

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282910.html

This is am interesting comparison. If you rank them you get:

1) Bradman
2) Sobers
3) Sutcliffe
4) Hammond
5) Hutton
6) Hobbs
7) Barrington
Ponting
9) Hayden
10) Viv Richards

Compared to the career top ten of Bradman, Sutcliffe, Barrington, Hammond, Sobers, Sangakkara, Hobbs, Kallis, Tendulkar, Hutton. I would suggest the first list is closer to the truth - Barrington is a bit high in that second list and Kallis and Sanga feel like imposters. Sobers resumes his rightful place as no. 2

The other difference with modern day players is that flat pitches and poor bowling standards have inflated averages to an extent. In the 80s and 90s it was perhaps 35 - adequate, 40 - good, 45 - excellent and 50 - all time great. Nowadays you can maybe add 5 runs to each of those categories.