How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by beamer on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 21:48

Well, Edmonds was a SLA, but still a fair point...

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by horace on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 22:40

Good post. Agree with Beamer as well. I think Oz might lose its next home series v the Bannies. We have three rubbish wozzies inc the worst no 6 in history who Embee continues to wet his pants over.

Imagine if Mug Marsh played for the Sozzies or Tozzies. Imagine the Embee invective.

Like Mudge hotting it up, Taips on a passive aggressive whitey rant or Planet Pakistan raving a out some quick or Lardy eating kfc because Paine features in their ads, Embee continues to yap at the heels of consistent worrier failure
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by embee on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 23:36

No h

I yap at success

you yap at failure

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by Basil on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 00:55

Vince has one innings to save his test career. Assuming he fails, the answer at 3 is Hameed.

Crane is good but he just be keeping a place warm for Matt Parkinson who looks the goods to me.

Craig Overton is worth persevering with, he looks like he's made of the right stuff. Likewise Mark Stoneman.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by furriner on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 06:21

embee wrote:No h

I yap at success

you yap at failure


I have effigies for both your situations.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by lardbucket on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 07:34

horace wrote:Lardy eating kfc because Paine features in their ads, Embee continues to yap at the heels of consistent worrier failure

Nothing could compel me to eat KFC.

Maybe a naked Rosamund Pike, or someone of that ilk, but it would still be a struggle.

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by Dello on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 21:57

It's hard to pick players that don't exist. Where are all these fast bowlers, spinny spinners and insatiably run-gorging batsmen?

County cricket is as soft and enfeebled as I can remember it. There's nothing there. A swamp of mediocrity with the odd overseas player dotted around, halfheartedly picking up a few extra quid between T20 gigs.

So where do England go?

Cook - I guess he'll survive by default. He's had a terrible series, hasn't scored one meaningful run, but a Daddy on a Deadie once the series was lost will skew his numbers.

Stoneman - Courageous, but lacks quality. Plays the short ball horribly and is very limited against spin. Alternatives aren't queuing up, but Robson, Lyth, Jennings, Hameed have all arguably done better than him opening up, scored more runs, before being dropped.

Vince - On a hiding to nothing batting at three. He doesn't bat there for his county. Joe Root does, but is too much of a pussy to take on the role in Tests. Vince is the new Ian Bell, stylish but insubstantial, and he belongs in the same role: 5 or 6, where his strokeplay can blossom against the old ball and tired attacks after the proper batsmen have had a go.

Technically, he's got the tools. None of the quicks have been able to ruffle him with the short ball. He moves his feet and looks calm against the spinning ball. He drives beautifully, pulls nicely. He just can't discipline himself to reign the shots in during periods when the bowlers are on top, to make them bowl him a special delivery to bowl him out.

What do England do with him? Talent-wise, he looks a class apart. If they send him back to country cricket, that'll be the end of his international career. I guarantee he will not mentally toughen up back on easy street. He'll just drift along, make the occasional nice knock that catches the eye, before his career quietly peters out. The only way he's ever going to learn the discipline to bat long Test innings is by being challenged hard in the Test arena.

Maybe the penny drops and he kicks on to be a decent batsmen, maybe it doesn't. But if they give up on him now, they're writing him off permanently. And for what? Who are the options? Livingstone? Looks total shite to me. Ballance? Sent away to fix his technique having been worked out by every international bowler, couldn't be bothered/too arrogant to, and has returned the exact same flawed waster. They say Dan Lawrence and Joe Clarke are very talented. They used to say that about James Vince too. They are full of shit.

Root - lost little boy as a captain. Has a mental problem in converting fifties to hundreds. Been shown up royally by Steve Smith as to what a world class batsman looks like. Needs to man up and move to three. Take some f*cking responsibility - you can't lead while hiding behind the sofa.

Malan - Limited but of good character. I don't understand why, having opened for vast swathes of his career, he hasn't been pushed higher up the order. Or even to open. Worth persisting with.

Bairstow - Flattered to deceive, I think. He's our best keeper-bat, though.

Moeen - Never been good enough to play in a specialist batting position, now his bowling's gone down the swanny you've got to fear for his future. In cricket, that is. I'm sure his future in general will be lovely.

Woakes - Classic ECB cricketer. Ineffective dobber who can bat a bit (not a lot) and is a ruddy nice bloke. He's not going to make any impression on any future Ashes tour. I'm sure they'll keep picking him, though, Ashley Giles-style.

Broad - Wickets at over 40s in the last year or so. Coming to a close with a meh.

Curran/Overton - Decent competitors, but 78-80mph seamers died out with the Ark. If they can't crank it up, they're not going to be any use.

Anderson - Poor lad. He's had to carry the entire attack. Again. And again. And again. I assume he'll jack it all in soon enough, even though he's winging it down as effectively as he ever did.

Crane - He's a talented leggie. Do I trust England to help him develop his talent into something special? No. I expect them to find reasons not to select him. Batting. Economy. Balance of the side. Etc.

Ballance - Had no business being on the tour. Was sent away to address his technical deficiencies. Didn't.

Finn/Wood - They used to be quite fast. They used to be fit. They used to have recognisable bowling actions. This was all before they were embraced by England and their wonderful coaches. What does the future hold for them? I'm going to predict a continued loss of pace and an increase in injuries.

Foakes - Whatever.

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by beamer on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 22:30

Lyth better than Stoneman? He barely averaged 20 (and all his Tests were at home as well). He made a century I guess, so if we’re going for the “medal table” method of ranking I suppose there’s a case for him...

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by horace on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 22:42

Fair, albeit brutal assessments. I'd persist with Malan and Vince but reverse their positions in the batting order. Broad should be toast, given his uneven effort. Cook should be retained for 12 months. Crane is impressive and I thought Overton was good.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by OP Tipping on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 03:19

Fair summary, Dello
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by embee on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 04:09

Dello wrote:It's hard to pick players that don't exist. Where are all these fast bowlers, spinny spinners and insatiably run-gorging batsmen?

County cricket is as soft and enfeebled as I can remember it. There's nothing there. A swamp of mediocrity with the odd overseas player dotted around, halfheartedly picking up a few extra quid between T20 gigs.

So where do England go?

Cook - I guess he'll survive by default. He's had a terrible series, hasn't scored one meaningful run, but a Daddy on a Deadie once the series was lost will skew his numbers.

Stoneman - Courageous, but lacks quality. Plays the short ball horribly and is very limited against spin. Alternatives aren't queuing up, but Robson, Lyth, Jennings, Hameed have all arguably done better than him opening up, scored more runs, before being dropped.

Vince - On a hiding to nothing batting at three. He doesn't bat there for his county. Joe Root does, but is too much of a pussy to take on the role in Tests. Vince is the new Ian Bell, stylish but insubstantial, and he belongs in the same role: 5 or 6, where his strokeplay can blossom against the old ball and tired attacks after the proper batsmen have had a go.

Technically, he's got the tools. None of the quicks have been able to ruffle him with the short ball. He moves his feet and looks calm against the spinning ball. He drives beautifully, pulls nicely. He just can't discipline himself to reign the shots in during periods when the bowlers are on top, to make them bowl him a special delivery to bowl him out.

What do England do with him? Talent-wise, he looks a class apart. If they send him back to country cricket, that'll be the end of his international career. I guarantee he will not mentally toughen up back on easy street. He'll just drift along, make the occasional nice knock that catches the eye, before his career quietly peters out. The only way he's ever going to learn the discipline to bat long Test innings is by being challenged hard in the Test arena.

Maybe the penny drops and he kicks on to be a decent batsmen, maybe it doesn't. But if they give up on him now, they're writing him off permanently. And for what? Who are the options? Livingstone? Looks total shite to me. Ballance? Sent away to fix his technique having been worked out by every international bowler, couldn't be bothered/too arrogant to, and has returned the exact same flawed waster. They say Dan Lawrence and Joe Clarke are very talented. They used to say that about James Vince too. They are full of shit.

Root - lost little boy as a captain. Has a mental problem in converting fifties to hundreds. Been shown up royally by Steve Smith as to what a world class batsman looks like. Needs to man up and move to three. Take some f*cking responsibility - you can't lead while hiding behind the sofa.

Malan - Limited but of good character. I don't understand why, having opened for vast swathes of his career, he hasn't been pushed higher up the order. Or even to open. Worth persisting with.

Bairstow - Flattered to deceive, I think. He's our best keeper-bat, though.

Moeen - Never been good enough to play in a specialist batting position, now his bowling's gone down the swanny you've got to fear for his future. In cricket, that is. I'm sure his future in general will be lovely.

Woakes - Classic ECB cricketer. Ineffective dobber who can bat a bit (not a lot) and is a ruddy nice bloke. He's not going to make any impression on any future Ashes tour. I'm sure they'll keep picking him, though, Ashley Giles-style.

Broad - Wickets at over 40s in the last year or so. Coming to a close with a meh.

Curran/Overton - Decent competitors, but 78-80mph seamers died out with the Ark. If they can't crank it up, they're not going to be any use.

Anderson - Poor lad. He's had to carry the entire attack. Again. And again. And again. I assume he'll jack it all in soon enough, even though he's winging it down as effectively as he ever did.

Crane - He's a talented leggie. Do I trust England to help him develop his talent into something special? No. I expect them to find reasons not to select him. Batting. Economy. Balance of the side. Etc.

Ballance - Had no business being on the tour. Was sent away to address his technical deficiencies. Didn't.

Finn/Wood - They used to be quite fast. They used to be fit. They used to have recognisable bowling actions. This was all before they were embraced by England and their wonderful coaches. What does the future hold for them? I'm going to predict a continued loss of pace and an increase in injuries.

Foakes - Whatever.


Jake Ball ....so forgettable Dello left him out to see if anyone noticed
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by furriner on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 04:31

Good summary Dellboy but but I'd say the below was harsh and would change it to:

Been shown up royally by Steve Smith as to what a world class an ATG batsman looks like.

Root is comfortably world class already.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by skully on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 04:36

Eloquent summation, D.

I thought English County Cricket had turned the corner in the softness stakes, announced in spades by the 3-1 trouncing of Aus in Aus in 2010-11. Alas, the soft underbelly seems to have returned fairly quickly. Did people (read: ECB) get complacent?
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by beamer on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 07:58

Well, they cut down massively on Kolpakkers and I think also pushed more experienced players out of the game by incentivising young England qualified players. It’s just watered down the quality.

Also they’re playing it in early and late season when sub-80mph swing bowling will dominate, not helping develop the batsmen or bowlers we need for Test cricket.

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by skully on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 11:16

Cheers beams.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by beamer on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 20:21

The fact Essex won the title last season says a lot really... an impressive, almost Leicester City-like achievement, but a typical English county side with little in the way of obvious international quality (Westley was the one who got a go at Test level and didn’t prove up to it).

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by horace on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 20:44

Maybe England could do worse than including an Essesian or two.

Sounds like Ballance is being sent home. Infected blisters from carrying the bags through the tour? Years ago there was a Lions tour here that proved a bit of a disaster. GB was about the only one of the kids to do well.

Sounds like young Livingston may get a tour of NZ. He sounds promising and may well be worth a go.

I think Moeen should continue to play. The conditions here obviously didn't suit.

NZ may be more suitable. He certainly was no worse than Swann.

Crane is worth perseverance from the selectors. Given the chance he would have bowled well on a fifth day pitch.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by beamer on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 20:48

Well, Cook does also play for the Chavs of course, and played more games than I’d have expected last season due to his lack of ODI/T20I involvement... my point still stands though! They’re largely a bunch of county journeymen who got the best out of their limited talent and the conditions.

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by beamer on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 20:54

As for Moeen, you mean he was no worse than the one-armed Swann (that being his non-bowling arm) who turned up in 2013-14? That’s not saying a lot. He was probably no better than Ashley Giles in 06-07 either... I think he needs a break, having contributed the square root of bugger all in either discipline.

Livingstone seems to be the young player being talked up at the moment, but I can’t get his headless chicken T20I debut out of my mind... first impressions and all that.

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by horace on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 20:57

But that is my point Beams. Ii don't think the Tourists got the best out of themselves. A few more non Londoners and a few more saffies/Zimboids could help.

There's a terrific young WI kid playing for Hobart in the Babel who quals for the Poms in a year or so. He bowls like the wind, can bat and fields with great skill. There are prospects.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by beamer on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 21:14

Young Joffrey/Jeffrey Archer you mean?

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by embee on Tue 09 Jan 2018, 01:37

horrie admits to watching Babel

Archer's fielding has been shaky at times

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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by horace on Tue 09 Jan 2018, 04:15

embee wrote:horrie admits to watching Babel

Archer's fielding has been shaky at times


Nope. Pommy Ali mentioned him on the ABC. Last night I even watched fast four tennis in preference to the Babel. A d that was despite the objectionable Ley Ley playing.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by Basil on Tue 09 Jan 2018, 20:29

If Bayliss is to be taken at his word from his BBC interview, Vince and Stoneman are more or less safe for the NZ tour. That would leave a spare batting spot if Ballance is given his P45. Dan Lawrence anyone?
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Re: How do you solve a problem like English cricket?

Post by Big Dog on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 06:43

Looks like Bayliss has jumped before he was pushed.

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/england-coach-to-stand-down-after-ashes-in-2019-trevor-bayliss-joe-root-alastair-cook-2019/2018-01-09
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