England v South Africa, 4th Test, The Oval, Aug 7-11

skully wrote:

holcs wrote:HA ha ha ha ha!!

Smiffy and KP at the toss for the 4th Test is going to be amusing!

It would be grand if KP mumbled just audibly under his breath "ya farkin gay fat c0ck juggler."

A Smithlike reply would be : "Put us in to bat and i'll be a REAL muppet and bat for 3 days, you queer."

... and they could then meet up after the match for a few Castles and a few backslapping laughs.

Looks like Bopara (probably batting at 7) for Vaughan will be the only change. At least Pietersen will have more bowling options than Vaughan had. He might bring himself on more too.

Word was from TMS that Vaughan had effectively retired from bowling because of the knee (t)issue. Pity. He coudl have done a better job on a couple of occasions than Kev's less impressive spinners.

(Meaning also that I hope he resists the temptation, and uses himself only as a change, shock or - ahem - desperation bowler.)

Realistically you would only use KP if its ragging square, or too dark for the seamers to bowl.

Bops has a new run-up - he's now wanging it in from about 3-4 paces

Is he keeping the arm straight?

Well, ish?

Allan D wrote:Looks like Bopara (probably batting at 7) for Vaughan will be the only change. At least Pietersen will have more bowling options than Vaughan had. He might bring himself on more too.

I think Sidebottom is perhaps still short of fitness, he wasn't at his best at Edgbaston and the Oval is unlikely to really suit his bowling anyway so we may see him replaced by Harmison or Broad. Alternatively they may go back to the 5-man attack, replacing Vaughan with a bowler and putting Freddie back up to 6?

5 man attack and Fred @ 6, is a big no no.

Just pick players that a 100% fit, that might be a help to the cause!

What about?

Cook
Ambrose
Kev
Collingwood
Bopara
Broad
Flintoff
Sidebottom
Anderson
Harmison
Panesar

?

Plenty of bowling options there.

No. It's blatant. Blatant. Bopara is in for his bowling. I CGAF about what people say about his and Shah's discrepancy in the batting averages this year. If it were on batting talent alone, Shah would beat Bops to the post.

However, Bopara can bowl. OK, he can't bowl that well - needing wobbly conditions, but he's competant enough. Furthermore he's younger and a better fielder. This is why he's been picked. With this, it also means that England can pick just 4 bowlers, they have two OKish fill-ins - if one gets tonked, there's always the other one.

Therefore:

Cook
Strauss
KP*
Bell
Bopara
Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose+
Harmison
Anderson
Monty

will be the team.

I am not liking from 2 drop down at all, in that line up. We could fold horribly if Bopara has the same sort of game as he displayed in SL.

That is one creaky batting lineup to me, especially if KP goes early.

holcs wrote:I am not liking from 2 drop down at all, in that line up. We could fold horribly if Bopara has the same sort of game as he displayed in SL.

That is one creaky batting lineup to me, especially if KP goes early.

Agreed. Ropey. But we aren't going to get any more personnel changes. No way. Just not England.

I expected a cull and felt this was the perfect opportunity for one. The batting crumbled again, but there has effectively been no changes. We've swapped a guy who averages in single figures in the series for a guy who averaged in single figures in his last series. The best and last opportunity for England to try out some new ideas has gone, and it's absolutely disgraceful. Somehow, Bopara has conned his way into the team purely on reputation (unearned). I guess the other change will be Sidebottom out for Harmison, if England have any common sense.

Brass Monkey wrote:

Therefore:

Cook
Strauss
KP*
Bell
Bopara
Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose+
Harmison
Anderson
Monty

will be the team.

I called that on page one before the squad had even been named. Except it'll be Bell that gets another crack at three - Pietersen won't move.

I love how England's response to defeat and decline is to do pretty much nothing.

Wasn't it Einstein who said: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Broad for Harmison in that team for me. May as well go for the younger guy - nothing to learn as far as GBH is concerned...

Augustus wrote:Somehow, Bopara has conned his way into the team purely on reputation (unearned).

That's unfair. He's on fire with the bat this season. He cocked up his chance in an England shirt out in Sri Lanka, but as a young player of some promise, his reaction to that disappointment has been spot on.

All you can do is come back stronger, and he has.

I don't think he's anywhere near as accomplished a batsman as Shah (or Key or even Jumble Sales) yet, but as batting selections go, they could've done much worse. At least they've giving a young kid a go rather than scuttling back to Marks Ramprakash, Butcher and Vic.

Give the kid a chance - he might just surprise you.

Well, if he's improved that much recently fair play to him., When last I saw him his repertoire of strokes seemed to comprise of nudges, and he looked incapable of a decent stroke.

furriner wrote:Well, if he's improved that much recently fair play to him., When last I saw him his repertoire of strokes seemed to comprise of nudges, and he looked incapable of a decent stroke.

http://content-www.cricinfo.com/countycricket2008/engine/current/match/319875.html

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/countycricket2008/engine/match/320065.html

Leicestershire are shit-house. The guy has talent, but no more than Shah and no amount of Div 2 runs are going to change that. With an up-coming tour to India, the common sense decision would have been to select your better player of spin in Ace and get him back into the rumble and tumble of Test Cricket.

Augustus wrote:Leicestershire are shit-house. The guy has talent, but no more than Shah and no amount of Div 2 runs are going to change that. With an up-coming tour to India, the common sense decision would have been to select your better player of spin in Ace and get him back into the rumble and tumble of Test Cricket.

Maybe. But it's pretty obvious that Shah is destined to be one of those players whose face just doesn't fit, so I don't see how Bopara is a terrible alternative. At least it's an investment in youth.

@ Dello- That seems to be a different Bopara!

Well, I'll wait and see. I still don't rank him over Shah for Tests. I saw Shah's two innings in India (Mumbai) and was convinced that he should have been given a 10 (or thereabouts) Test run. He was class.

furriner wrote:@ Dello- That seems to be a different Bopara!

Well, I'll wait and see. I still don't rank him over Shah for Tests. I saw Shah's two innings in India (Mumbai) and was convinced that he should have been given a 10 (or thereabouts) Test run. He was class.

Was dropped straight away, didn't even make another squad for nearly two years. You have to wonder what has been going on behind the scenes...

I think Bopara is a talented player. He certainly seems like a natural batsmen with all the strokes when I have seen him live.

But in his FC career to date he averages only 35 away from the Chelmsford road. And he has spent his whole career in Div 2. He definitely flatters to decieve.

Dello wrote:

furriner wrote:@ Dello- That seems to be a different Bopara!

Well, I'll wait and see. I still don't rank him over Shah for Tests. I saw Shah's two innings in India (Mumbai) and was convinced that he should have been given a 10 (or thereabouts) Test run. He was class.

Was dropped straight away, didn't even make another squad for nearly two years. You have to wonder what has been going on behind the scenes...

Me: You scored loads of runs for Middlesex and then went on to score a match winning 88 in the Mumbai test match your only test match at the time) so how did it feel when you weren't given a chance against SL, PAK and then off course the Ashes? Did the selectors give you any specific reason on why you were left out?

Owais Shah: No specific reason, They said Marcus Trescothick has to come back and I am the one who has to make way, obviously I was disappointed at being left out as I felt I did everything I had to do prior to the test match, getting runs for Middlesex and more runs in the first match, I could not do anymore then I did, perhaps I could have got a hundred. In sports you have to bide your time, some times you get tough decisions that go against you and that’s part of parcel of professional sports

Me? You?