Re: Terry Jones- Burn the Quran day

by Guest Sat 11 Sep 2010, 15:47

Enough of this tip-toeing around religious sensibilities.

by The One Sat 11 Sep 2010, 15:53

esp since the koran and bible would be banned for hate speech if it wasnt for the fact that they are the 'holy' koran and bible

by Guest Sat 11 Sep 2010, 15:59

The One wrote:esp since the koran and bible would be banned for hate speech if it wasnt for the fact that they are the 'holy' koran and bible

Yes, god is loving and benevolent, although he has a strange fixation for inflicting severe bowel disorders (which is actually quite funny if you read the relevant bible passages), commiting genocide, infanticide, speciescide, condoning incest, slavery and misogyny and generally sh!t-stirring. Apart from that he is a kind old bean.

Like the fact that you didn't bother capitalising bible or koran TO What a Face

.

by doremi Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:01

Can't we just burn both.

by The One Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:07

Clamson wrote:Like the fact that you didn't bother capitalising bible or koran TO .

i only capitalise SRT Cool

by Guest Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:10

The One wrote:
Clamson wrote:Like the fact that you didn't bother capitalising bible or koran TO .

i only capitalise SRT

At least SRT actually exists and can be scientifically proven to exist!

Although I have never seen him in the flesh...

by Allan D Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:13

Absolutely - very corrupting this Golden Rule nonsense that runs as a thread through all the world's religions and occurs in the books of all 3 monotheistic faiths such as Judaism:

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Leviticius, chap.19 v.18

Christianity:

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

The Gospel According to St Luke, chap.6 v.31

and Islam:

those who show their affection to such as came to them for refuge and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves

The Koran

Very disturbing.

by Guest Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:19

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2

"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16

Very disturbing.

by The One Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:23

Allan D wrote:Absolutely - very corrupting this Golden Rule nonsense that runs as a thread through all the world's religions and occurs in the books of all 3 monotheistic faiths such as Judaism:

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Leviticius, chap.19 v.18

Christianity:

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

The Gospel According to St Luke, chap.6 v.31

and Islam:

those who show their affection to such as came to them for refuge and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves

The Koran

Very disturbing.

alas. if only these were the only verses in those books

the conduct of various christian and islamic armies over the ages would prove otherwise. esp when it came to their treatment of people who were not 'of the book'

by Guest Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:24

I don't care if people believe in a god, or gods, they are free to believe what they like. Just as I am free to think them fools for believing so, and just as they are free to think me a fool for "believing" in the sciences as I do.

However, I get angry when such people attempt to hold back social, economic or scientific progress because of their beliefs.

by Guest Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:25

The One wrote:
Allan D wrote:Absolutely - very corrupting this Golden Rule nonsense that runs as a thread through all the world's religions and occurs in the books of all 3 monotheistic faiths such as Judaism:

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Leviticius, chap.19 v.18

Christianity:

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

The Gospel According to St Luke, chap.6 v.31

and Islam:

those who show their affection to such as came to them for refuge and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves

The Koran

Very disturbing.

alas. if only these were the only verses in those books

the conduct of various christian and islamic armies over the ages would prove otherwise. esp when it came to their treatment of people who were not 'of the book'

Genocide is OK if you pray first.

by Allan D Sat 11 Sep 2010, 16:29

More people have died or been thrust into abject misery as a result of Karl Marx' Das Kapital. Maybe we should throw that on the bonfire too.

by The One Sat 11 Sep 2010, 17:16

why not. paper burns well

i doubt you will see people killing others because of it

by PlanetPakistan Sat 11 Sep 2010, 17:35

The local Imam from our area( central Flordia) has been in touch with pastor and has seemingly convinced him to NOT burn the Quran.

However the racist pastor is obviously not very bright and is having difficulty comprehending the whole situation and has been flip flopping more than the PCB.

by Allan D Sat 11 Sep 2010, 17:46

After all, it's not as if Muslims ever burn the Bible:

by Merlin Sat 11 Sep 2010, 18:53

This becomes a highly amusing thread when reading the gems written by those who worship elephant gods, the long-bow wielding Rama and Sita, Kali the killer god and numerous other gods to represent the various castes - then cast scorn and (albeit humourously - I would hope) suggest the burning of both the Bible and the Koran ...

Ain't religion fun .......

by krikri Sat 11 Sep 2010, 20:34

Allan D wrote:After all, it's not as if Muslims ever burn the Bible:

*sh!t*. Zionist propaganda! Laughing

by Growler Sat 11 Sep 2010, 20:46

The One wrote:
Allan D wrote:Absolutely - very corrupting this Golden Rule nonsense that runs as a thread through all the world's religions and occurs in the books of all 3 monotheistic faiths such as Judaism:

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Leviticius, chap.19 v.18

Christianity:

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

The Gospel According to St Luke, chap.6 v.31

and Islam:

those who show their affection to such as came to them for refuge and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves

The Koran

Very disturbing.

alas. if only these were the only verses in those books

the conduct of various christian and islamic armies over the ages would prove otherwise. esp when it came to their treatment of people who were not 'of the book'

Thats very true, TO - and what's more, no true believer would condone it, but there haven't been any "christian" or "muslim" armies as such for many years.

I'd venture that - over the last 100 years, three atheists have been responsible for death and human misery on a scale far bigger than any religious wars in the history of mankind. Four if we count Pol Pot, but he was just an apprentice really.

So while I respect your right to your views - please, no moralising about how wicked we religious nuts are compared to the paragons of virtue who don't believe. I think most fair minded people (whether religious or not) would agree that the moral high ground isn't yours (as in atheists I don't mean you personally) to take.

As far as the subject of the thread is concerned, I think right-minded people of all faiths and none are appalled in principle that someone can be so deliberately offensive on such a scale for no obvious reason, and with nothing to gain.

by Allan D Sat 11 Sep 2010, 21:20

Mass Killings under Communist Regimes

Persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union

by PlanetPakistan Sat 11 Sep 2010, 21:28

Merlin wrote:This becomes a highly amusing thread when reading the gems written by those who worship elephant gods, the long-bow wielding Rama and Sita, Kali the killer god and numerous other gods to represent the various castes - then cast scorn and (albeit humourously - I would hope) suggest the burning of both the Bible and the Koran ...

Ain't religion fun .......

regardless of a given situation you can almost guarantee that most Indian posters will have negative views of Muslims and will try to either defend or conceal the shortcomings of others.

Lets take TO for instance who seems like a fairly level headed guy but when discussing issues like the middle east conflict or this current issue he will try to defend the other party. In this particular instance its quite clear that he is ignoring the CRUX of the thread(racist pastor) and is busy posting lame cartoons.
p.s admitedly the point of muslim/christian army is very valid

by The One Sun 12 Sep 2010, 00:02

PlanetPakistan wrote:regardless of a given situation you can almost guarantee that most Indian posters will have negative views of Muslims and will try to either defend or conceal the shortcomings of others.

oooo! biting. considering over 150 million indians are muslim

for the record i think all religions are sh!t. but by no means do i consider all are equally sh!t

by The One Sun 12 Sep 2010, 00:08

Growler wrote:Thats very true, TO - and what's more, no true believer would condone it, but there haven't been any "christian" or "muslim" armies as such for many years.

I'd venture that - over the last 100 years, three atheists have been responsible for death and human misery on a scale far bigger than any religious wars in the history of mankind. Four if we count Pol Pot, but he was just an apprentice really.

So while I respect your right to your views - please, no moralising about how wicked we religious nuts are compared to the paragons of virtue who don't believe. I think most fair minded people (whether religious or not) would agree that the moral high ground isn't yours (as in atheists I don't mean you personally) to take.

As far as the subject of the thread is concerned, I think right-minded people of all faiths and none are appalled in principle that someone can be so deliberately offensive on such a scale for no obvious reason, and with nothing to gain.

growler, true. but i never claimed a lack of religion solely is a virtue either. a semblance of humanity is

religions of the book if read 'by the book' so to say, are not very comforting for someone who does not ascribe to them. i hope some day like most of western europe and some other parts of the western world common sense prevails over ancient/medieval texts

i have no qualms over saying that the koran/bible/etc are a load of bull

by The One Sun 12 Sep 2010, 00:11

Merlin wrote:This becomes a highly amusing thread when reading the gems written by those who worship elephant gods, the long-bow wielding Rama and Sita, Kali the killer god and numerous other gods to represent the various castes - then cast scorn and (albeit humourously - I would hope) suggest the burning of both the Bible and the Koran ...

Ain't religion fun .......

i dont think any hindu has posted on this thread. unless i am getting doremi wrong

by Guest Sun 12 Sep 2010, 01:21

Growler wrote:
The One wrote:
Allan D wrote:Absolutely - very corrupting this Golden Rule nonsense that runs as a thread through all the world's religions and occurs in the books of all 3 monotheistic faiths such as Judaism:

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Leviticius, chap.19 v.18

Christianity:

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

The Gospel According to St Luke, chap.6 v.31

and Islam:

those who show their affection to such as came to them for refuge and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves

The Koran

Very disturbing.

alas. if only these were the only verses in those books

the conduct of various christian and islamic armies over the ages would prove otherwise. esp when it came to their treatment of people who were not 'of the book'

Thats very true, TO - and what's more, no true believer would condone it, but there haven't been any "christian" or "muslim" armies as such for many years.

I'd venture that - over the last 100 years, three atheists have been responsible for death and human misery on a scale far bigger than any religious wars in the history of mankind. Four if we count Pol Pot, but he was just an apprentice really.

So while I respect your right to your views - please, no moralising about how wicked we religious nuts are compared to the paragons of virtue who don't believe. I think most fair minded people (whether religious or not) would agree that the moral high ground isn't yours (as in atheists I don't mean you personally) to take.

As far as the subject of the thread is concerned, I think right-minded people of all faiths and none are appalled in principle that someone can be so deliberately offensive on such a scale for no obvious reason, and with nothing to gain.

There is a key difference though, none of the people you mention who commited genocide did it "in the name of atheism". Hitler was also a vegetarian, does that mean that vegetarianism promotes genocide? Of course not.

It is however indisputable that many atrocities have been commited in the name of religion, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find a single example of genocide in the name of atheism.

by Growler Sun 12 Sep 2010, 01:43

The One wrote:

growler, true. but i never claimed a lack of religion solely is a virtue either. a semblance of humanity is

No, I know you weren't - and didn't mean to imply it. Was making the point that evil resides in the hearts of men both with and without faith, and if they attract a following combined with power, they can wreak misery. Likewise, you rightly point out that you don't need faith to have a sense of humanity.

religions of the book if read 'by the book' so to say, are not very comforting for someone who does not ascribe to them. ( I can understand that sentiment ). i hope some day like most of western europe and some other parts of the western world common sense prevails over ancient/medieval texts

But is it really a case of "common sense prevailing over ancient / mediaeval texts" ? I say that because - the majority of the western world is at least nominally Christian even if many of the population are no longer actively practicing. You know the Bible was written in two Testaments, old and new, I'm sure. But are you aware of the main difference - or at least the real significance of the difference?

Apologies if you do know - but it's the only way I can explain my point. The OT was the giving of Mosaic Law from God to man, and it was indeed bloody to the point of downright cruel by modern standards. It also contains the books of prophecy, many of which have been demonstrably proven true. In the new Testament, Jesus' teachings of forgiveness repeal huge swathes of Mosaic law. It's why, for example it's many hundreds of years since any Christian country stoned any adulteresses to death.

You'd be right in coming back with examples like the Inquisition - but my reply is this ...... bear in mind that, until a couple of hundred years ago, the clergy were one of the few sections of society who could read. The church had huge power, and many people within did abuse that power. However, it has to be emphasised - while they were evil acts carried out by evil men in the name of religion, they certainly did not have any scriptural authority on their side. They deliberately mis-interpreted the scriptures for their own ends. There's nothing at all in the NT even suggesting that non-believers should be persecuted, or that heretics should be cleansed and burned.

That's why I don't like to see "religion" or "the church" blamed for the evils done by men. Both are abstract, and incapable of committing any act, good or bad. The responsibility for atrocities rests firmly on the shoulders of the men carrying them out.

i have no qualms over saying that the koran/bible/etc are a load of bull

I guess we must simply agree to disagree on that statement

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