Re: The Football Thread - 10/11 (II)

by Jontyh Sun May 15, 2011 8:41 pm

JKLever wrote:United about to be champions, and what's with all these farqin league games on FA Cup Final day?

And where's the 8 hour build up and fun and games on Swap Shop?

Anyway good luck to Citeh, even though you've bought it. Wonder if Jonty got a ticket?

I didn't even get to watch it live, JK - had a gig half-way down the country so I was in the car with Alan Green ranting me through it!

by LeFromage Sun May 15, 2011 11:34 pm

You didn't miss much.

Can't remember the last decent cup final. Spurs v Coventry '87?

by beamer Sun May 15, 2011 11:52 pm

There was Liverpool-West Ham a few years back, 3-3 that went to penalties. Generally though the occasion gets the better of the players - same goes for the Champions League final, World Cup final etc. Maybe they need to artificially make it more exciting, as Formula 1 is doing...

by Basil Mon May 16, 2011 1:19 am

That's the last time I take strong drink at Sunday lunchtime, I've just seen a scoreflash saying Arsenal 0, Villa 2.

by JKLever Mon May 16, 2011 3:18 am

Poor old wet spam. Would've had a decent shout at staying up if they hadn't fugged it up today.

by beamer Mon May 16, 2011 3:20 am

JKLever wrote:Poor old wet spam. Would've had a decent shout at staying up if they hadn't fugged it up today.

They'd still have needed a miracle, all it would have achieved was taking Wigan with them in all probability. Now 1 point covering 5 teams for 2 relegation places!

Arsenal on the brink of the remarkable achievement of finishing fourth in a two-horse race. And Spurs winning at Anfield must be the surprise result of the day.

by Basil Mon May 16, 2011 3:21 am

Two from Blackpool, Wigan, Birmingham City, Wolves and Blackburn to go down with the Hammers.

by LeFromage Mon May 16, 2011 3:49 am

beamer wrote:There was Liverpool-West Ham a few years back, 3-3 that went to penalties. Generally though the occasion gets the better of the players - same goes for the Champions League final, World Cup final etc. Maybe they need to artificially make it more exciting, as Formula 1 is doing...

Yeah, that Pool/Sham game was decent. Couple of the Cardiff finals were watchable. Must be a Wembley thing.

by LeFromage Mon May 16, 2011 3:53 am

beamer wrote:Arsenal on the brink of the remarkable achievement of finishing fourth in a two-horse race.

Pathetic collapse at the business end of the season, just as everyone who isn't Arsene Wenger - who still maintains they're on the cusp of something amazing and absolutely not in need of a massive clear out and return to the drawing board - predicted.

Two wins in their last ten games. I think Wolves are going better than that.

Get as much silly money as you can for as many of your "stars" as you can, Wengy. Start again. From the back.

by beamer Mon May 16, 2011 5:28 am

Dello wrote:Get as much silly money as you can for as many of your "stars" as you can, Wengy. Start again. From the back.

There's more chance of him picking himself at centre back for the first game of next season. He might sell Fabregas but only to give another youngster in a similar mould (probably Ramsey) a regular slot.

The more people in the media criticise, the more stubborn he gets, and I think he would see winning through spending lots of money or a more physical or direct approach as a defeat for his philosophy. Is it time for them to consider the unthinkable and make a change at the top?

by beamer Mon May 16, 2011 5:40 am

Alan Hansen says he can't recall the last time a team with so many England internationals went down. I can, it was West Ham in about 2003! A bit of a pattern emerging here... though the fact that the likes of Green and Upson can class themselves as England players says more about the depth of English talent than it does about the quality of West Ham. Parker is the only one who will really be in demand, the others might find themselves stuck playing in the Championship.

by LeFromage Mon May 16, 2011 5:56 am

beamer wrote:Alan Hansen says he can't recall the last time a team with so many England internationals went down. I can, it was West Ham in about 2003! A bit of a pattern emerging here... though the fact that the likes of Green and Upson can class themselves as England players says more about the depth of English talent than it does about the quality of West Ham. Parker is the only one who will really be in demand, the others might find themselves stuck playing in the Championship.

Yeah, the West Ham that went down that year was ridiculous. By rights they should've been top eight. Off the top of my head, they had Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Jermain Defoe, Glen Johnson, David James, Trevor Sinclair, Freddie Kanoute - and Di Canio was still knocking about too.

I find it hard to have any sympathy for the current incarnation of the Hammers, though. The owners, Sullivan and Gold, are awful people. The way they treated Zola last season was disgraceful - and he kept them up - and they've not treated Avram Grant any better. He's just been sacked, it's been announced. Although they pretty much announced that at Christmas. And then back-tracked a little. But not much.

Green's a dodgy keeper. Doubt anyone good will be in for him. Upson is vastly over-rated, slow and immobile. Parker and Carlton Cole (although he's totally Heskeyan in his ability to consistently punch way below his weight) will get some interest - I think Mark Noble's a very under-rated young English midfielder. Wouldn't surprise me if he ended up somewhere half decent.

Oh, and I see Jordan Spence played today. He has been the captain of most of the England age groups on his way through the ranks. If, in real life, he's as good as he is in Football Manager 2011, he'll get snapped up too.

by Lara Lara Laughs Mon May 16, 2011 6:24 am

RE: Arsenal. They're only 3 or 4 players away from being a really really good team. Why they didn't seriously bid for Yaya Toure, I do not know. If anyone's a replacement for Viera, he is. Even Makoun would have been good. I heard Jagielka's on his way to the Emirates in the summer.

Another defender, a midfielder and a class striker who doesn't break all the time like Van Persie would sort them out.

But they probably won't hold on to Fabregas and the goalkeeper's still a worry.

by Guest Mon May 16, 2011 6:30 am

Hope Wenger ends up at Real when Jose goes. That chance might be gone now though, he hasn't done himself any favours with 6 trophyless years.

by Chivalry Augustus Mon May 16, 2011 7:05 am

Demba Ba will be bought by someone.

Maybe Robert Green will go back to Norwich. At least Robert Green being available means that there will be one less Premier League club to buy Lee Camp. Arsenal should buy Scott Parker immediately. He's not French, he doesn't have that silly a haircut, and he can actually play the holding midfield position. I guess that's none out of three as far as Wenger's concerned. Maybe one day he'll realise that they lost their edge the day they lost the more robust of their excellent footballers. Arsenal have always passed it around well but they used to have guys who could pass and compete instead of just the former.

I just don't see much changing at Arsenal in terms of recruitment. Apparently, they're after one of our really young central defenders who hasn't played for the first team yet. He's 17 and they're talking £millions for him. What's the point? Pool it all together and buy some right now players rather than some maybe-in-the-not-too-distant-future players.

by LeFromage Mon May 16, 2011 10:12 am

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:RE: Arsenal. They're only 3 or 4 players away from being a really really good team. Why they didn't seriously bid for Yaya Toure, I do not know.

Because they're not bankrolled by an Arab billionaire and therefore have a wage structure. Yaya Toure is the highest paid player in the Premier League earning reportedly more than double Arsenal's highest earner. £200+k a week might be pocket change for a pretend outfit like Man City, but as Arsenal are a proper business, it's unsustainable. And, frankly, ridiculous considering the limitations of Toure compared to similarly bracketed earners Messi and Ronaldo.

If anyone's a replacement for Viera, he is. Even Makoun would have been good. I heard Jagielka's on his way to the Emirates in the summer.

It's not really Vieira that needs replacing. In their successful sides, it was Vieira's unheralded partner in crime (Petit first and then Gilberto) that did the real ugly work that makes all the difference. When they seemed to be getting their act together a few years ago, Flamini did all the donkey work. And then they let him go...

Jagielka's not the guy they need. I mean, he's better than their other centre backs, but that's not saying much. He's a poor man's Gary Cahill. Who is a poor man's Keith Curle.

Another defender, a midfielder and a class striker who doesn't break all the time like Van Persie would sort them out. But they probably won't hold on to Fabregas and the goalkeeper's still a worry.

I disagree. They have too many players who can't cope with the mental side of the game. They can have all the ability in the world, but if you've got Malteser Balls, well, we know how that story ends. It was a damning indictment of the complete lack of fight in this Arsenal side when Wenger bemoaned their performance at Stoke with the assessment: "The players have to want to head the ball." I mean, it beggars belief. Has there ever been a more heartless, spineless bunch of Fancy Dans in the history of the Premier League?

They're full of losers. Talented players, but football is full of talented players who won't ever make it to the top due to a lack of personality: the ability to turn it on when it matters. Losers.

I actually think their keeper situation is all right. Szcezeny (that's a spelling guess) is a seriously promising young keeper. I don't think they could sign a better prospect and it seems a waste of money bringing in a more established name for a short period of time while Chesney "matures".

Right back. Sanga. Excellent debut season, but has been going backwards ever since. A real buck-passer in defence. It's always someone else's fault. Back up: Eboue. Useless.

Left back. Clichy. Apparently people are queuing up to pay top dollar to buy him this summer. Take the money. A liability in the defence. Gets caught on the ball in a dangerous position at least once every game. Has got progressively worse with every season. Back up: Gibbs. Looked promising. Two years ago. Now looks as shaky as Bambi on ice.

Centre backs. All useless. Vermaelen is the only one worth anything, but he's injury prone and, in all honesty, a bit Daniel Agger in the sense that he looks like he's out there defending, but he never actually seems to be around when danger's afoot. They've got a young guy, Kyle Bartley, who is better than those French clowns and Djourou. Again, that's not saying much.

Ball-winning midfielder. None. Song does it, nominally. But really all he does is foul and occasionally get in the way of his own side's passing move. Very ordinary footballer. Denilson and Diaby are just not up to it. Denilson's a classic Arsenal defensive midfielder in the sense that he can't be arsed defending. Yeah, he'll hang a leg out every now and then, but he's not running. Diaby's just a miserable player. Should have great physical presence, yet is as a timid as a door mouse who has just been raped by his uncle.

Central midfield. Wilshire will be a good player, provided he doesn't burn out. England are mental if they take him to the Euro under 21 championships in the summer. He looks out on his feet. If Ramsey can get his game back after his horrific injury - and the early signs are encouraging - he can be a player. Fabregas is bit like their Gerrard. They've had to change their entire formation to try and accommodate him, because he just doesn't give anything for the cause when they lose possession. And yet, I don't think he's looked nearly as good a player in his more advanced role as he did when he played from deeper as part of a two-man central midfield (in a 4-4-2). Injury prone. Selfish. Petulant. Cash in, I say. He doesn't want to be there. He's made it abundantly clear he wants to join Barcelona. That's inspirational captaincy, Arsenal-style.

Wide players: Nasri. Had a three month purple patch at the start of this season. Then reverted to the tepid form he's shown for the majority of the last three years. Locked in a contract impasse, one of yesterday's rags had Bayern making a £30 million bid. Take it. He's not that good. Spend it on Eden Hazard. He is. Arshavin is finished. His poor attitude to working hard for the team has always rendered him a passenger when Arsenal don't have the ball (whenever they go down to ten men, it's always Ashavin that has to be subbed immediately so that they at least retain the starting tactic of having ten guys who are trying), but has been excused because he was seen as a major player, a key component of the attack. But his bright start has been followed by two mediocre seasons where he's often been a passenger in or out of possession.

Walcott. Is he progressing? Started the season on fire. Got injured. Came back still with a little heat remaining. Got injured. He's been very quiet in the run in. Defend deep, don't give him any space in behind to run into, and he's at a total loss what to do. Doesn't have the ability or know-how to create chances in tight games. Not really a winger. Not really a striker. What is he?

Strikers. You can write of Bendtner, Chamakh and Vela. Rubbish. Not even decent squad players. Just replica-shirted cadavers. Van Persie is a conundrum. Scores a lot of goals without ever quite looking the part as a centre forward. He's a second striker if ever there was one. But the real issue is his fitness. I don't think he's managed a solitary season in the eight or so years he's been at Arsenal without a lengthy two or three month injury lay off. They can't build their side around him. Chances are he'll be unavailable for the big matches, the key moments. Happens every season.

Two or three summer signings won't turn this side into serious title contenders. The foundations just aren't there - they'll just be joining the mediocre gravy train to Also-Ran-Ville and will quickly blend in with the natives, dragged down to their level.

by taipan Mon May 16, 2011 4:44 pm

Arsenal have to start building from the back. It's fine going on about Viera and Petit, but who were the four behind them.

by LeFromage Mon May 16, 2011 8:36 pm

Wenger inherited the Seaman, Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn back five.

His attempts at building a defence of his own have been pretty woeful, by and large. The "Invincibles" had three converted midfielders - Lauren, Toure and Cole - in the back four. Which they got away with. For one season.

But think of the defenders and keepers he's signed. Stepanovs. Senderos. Grimandi. Squillachi, Koscielny, Eboue, Luzhny, Cygan, Almunia, Fabianski, Wright - just terrible.

Does he even know what he's looking for?

by JKLever Mon May 16, 2011 8:44 pm

Wenger has much to admire about him. Teams play beautiful football, and he tries to bring through younger players but you get the feeling he is happy doing just that and if given a £60mn pot of cash he'd spunk it on 20 promising players that he could mould in his style whilst not worrying if they won anything or not.

by doremi Tue May 17, 2011 12:20 am

I think Dello's got it right. Spectacular slumps like these indicate a lack of guts, spirit, more than anything else. And except a few in their mid-field, the others are not up to it.

Which is a shame because you want a team which plays like Arsenal to win matches.

by taipan Tue May 17, 2011 4:00 am

doremi wrote:I Which is a shame because you want a team which plays like Arsenal to win matches.

No you don't.

Bunch ot gutless warriors.

by Guest Tue May 17, 2011 5:54 am

For f**ks sake, I'd managed to forget about the playoff tonight which for my sanity would have been a good thing. I suppose I have to watch us get battered now.

Ah well, at least it's only 2-0 at the moment. As long as it doesn't become 4 or 5 then at least it's not that embarassing.

F**king Forest sh!t wankers.

by Guest Tue May 17, 2011 6:37 am

F**king Lee Camp.

by Chivalry Augustus Tue May 17, 2011 6:47 am

vilkrang wrote:F**king Lee Camp.

What else was he going to do? Lose 2-1, lose 3-1 - what difference does it make? I'd always send the keeper up and hope for the best in the 93rd minute, personally. And it's not as if it's the keeper who makes the decision.

I thought Forest were okay tonight and 3-1 over the two legs flattered them. We hit the woodwork three times and should have had at least one penalty tonight, although any competent referee would have given two.

Not at all surprising that the referee was a complete home banker aka wanker though.

by Guest Tue May 17, 2011 7:01 am

I agree with you re Camp, was just looking for a scapegoat. Was much more exciting than last year anyway, thought Earnshaw had got us through to ET when he hit the post on 90 minutes.

Hopefully next season we can start and finish the season well and not just have one mental period of amazing form sandwiched between two piles of sh!t.

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