Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (V)

[JGK]

Forget what the speakers are saying - look at what is happening in the background...

http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/politics-live-june-27-2012-20120627-2118r.html

[lardbucket]

The passengers are mostly women and children, the Daily Telegraph reports.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/tragedy-another-asylum-seeker-boat-capsizes/story-e6frfkw9-1226410005101#ixzz1yxeVImGL

This will probably make the debate more emotive. I can understand the idea of people being outraged over the death or potential death of children but it has always intrigued me the way news report bombing deaths as including women and children. I don't know why outside of war, the death of men should be any less shocking than the deaths of women in a world where we are trying to promote equal opportunity!

Interestingly the "Malaysia solution" doesn't cover women and children. So 800 men would be sent to Malaysia while the boats keep coming full of women and children.

Also reported on the wireless a little while ago, the Malaysian Opposition (who stand their best chance in ages to win Govt at the next election) have said they reject the Malaysia solution outright. So it could all be a moot point soon.

The Malaysia solution, which Gillard until recently insisted was the only solution, and which Abbott and the Liberals (rather than her own Coalition partners) should vote for, has already been voted down by the High Court.

[lardbucket]

Yep. But in the spirit of compromise they are willing to revisit that conclusion.

What's wrong with that?

it's a good outcome after 5 years.

[Paul Keating]

Nauru too would be illegal under the same ruling of that High Court decision.

[Big Dog]

It's reported that a boat load of asylum seekers with 150 on board has just capsized north of CI. Expect more fallout.

I still can't work out why we are going through all this self flagellation over the last boat disaster when it happened in Indonesian waters.

[Red]

Would love to be a fly on the polling booth wall next August or so when some wag offers you a Lib How to Vote flier with Abbott's face on the front.

I'll just reiterate what I said last time.

Hopefully, Austen Tayshus will be running again in my seat so I'll have someone to vote for. Although he is a bit of a Zionist qunt.

Fark me, democracy can suck.

Exactly, next year I could be putting up with Mr Rabbit and Faillieu.

As for refugee numbers, the boats do complicate things because their arrivals get subtracted from our intake which is about 13,500 according to experts from both sides of politics tonight. Perhaps the real casualties are those impecunious people who have been languishing in refugee camps for years with little hope of resettling in Australia. For e.g. when boatloads of men arrive on CI and gain refugee status their families can be resettled here as well which means that some very poor people who have already been declared as genuine refugees will probably be stuck in camps forever.

[JGK]

That's exactly the game theory behind the Malaysia solution. Tell the next 800 men to come that they will languish for the rest of their lives in Malaysia - therefore they won't come (maybe).

Abbott has just offered to increase our intake to 20,000 in return for opening up Nauru. I'm pretty sure he rejected that specific policy a couple of years ago so maybe he is loosening up.

[skully]

That's exactly the game theory behind the Malaysia solution. Tell the next 800 men to come that they will languish for the rest of their lives in Malaysia - therefore they won't come (maybe).

You're kidding, right?

[JGK]

Would you come to Australia if you knew you were going to spend the rest of your life in a Malaysian refugee camp?

[JGK]

Meanwhile, Parliament is still going on. Getting a bit heated it seems...

7.22pm: Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey is beyond fury.

I will never vote for the Malaysia deal.

His voice is crackling with fury.

I will never allow a child to be sent unaccompanied to Malaysia.

It will be over my dead body.


That last line may well be enough for Andrew Robb to cross the floor.

[skully]

Would you come to Australia if you knew you were going to spend the rest of your life in a Malaysian refugee camp?

As a desperate refugee, after I've heard the first 800 have been sent, absolutely.

[Hass]

Would you come to Australia if you knew you were going to spend the rest of your life in a Malaysian refugee camp?

As a desperate refugee, after I've heard the first 800 have been sent, absolutely.

But who's going to put their hand up to be the sacrificial lamb? The idea is that no-one will ever have to be sent to Malaysia because 800 people aren't going to make a treacherous journey to Australia only to be assured of ending up in Malaysia.

I admit it's possible that the plan might fail. People smugglers might be able to trick/cajole/lie to/force enough people to get past the 800 mark. Which is why JGK's idea of a 2000 for 6000 swap makes more sense. 2000 is a lot of asylum seekers.

That being said the Malaysian solution still has the glaring flaw of what to do with women and children. Officially they will be sent back, although the government says they would consider processing them in Australia on a case by case basis. This means you could end up sending unaccompanied kids over to Malaysia (not good) or you end up allowing women and children to be processed here (ensuring women and children are the most likely people to be loaded onto unsafe boats).

But I think the Malaysian Solution is a bit like Winston Churchill's view on democracy. It's the worst option... apart from all the others.

[Hass]

The other thing to add is that Nauru can only hold 1200 people. That's only 400 more than the Malaysian cap. Under the Nauru plan, if more than 1200 asylum seekers make it to Australian waters then people will have to start being processed on Australian soil.

The bill which has passed the lower house now includes both Malaysia and Narau. That means even if 800 people came to Australia, those who followed them could be processed in Narau. It effectively increases the off-shore processing limit to 2000, while ensuring almost half of those people have no chance of settling in Australia.

Malaysia and Nauru combined act as a bigger deterrent than the status quo or Nauru by itself.

I accept that Liberals like Joe Hockey and Judy Moylan opposed this bill on humanitarian grounds. I find it hard to believe that the likes of Abbott and Morrison have suddenly become humanitarians overnight.

[JGK]

The humanitarian thing is overstated. Overall, there will be FEWER refugees in Malaysia and more in Australia given the swap ratio.

If Malaysia is such an evil place then why is that a bad thing?

[horace]

Australia is a disgrace...the ALP, Greens and 1950s lib/nats are all appalling

[Paul Keating]

I didn't realise that Nauru can only hold 1200 asylum seekers

You never read that in the newspapers.

[JGK]

That's not very many for a billion or so bucks a year.

[Paul Keating]

Far out the Greens are pi55ing me off.

Who do they think they are?

I hope they become extinct after the next election

The farked Rudd over with the ETS: Result: No ETS for another 12 years. Because the Coalition will be in power for another four terms. The greens played hard ball and guess what. They get nothing.

Yeah good on your Bob Brown

And now they are farking Gillard over with the asylum seeker deal. Yes the Greens are consistent on this. But FFS it is a hung parliament and a different landscape these days. Do something right for once you bunch of hippies.

What has Milne, Hanson-Young and Brown acheived in the last five years for their loyal voters?

[JGK]

Getting narky in the senate at the moment.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/politics-live-june-28-2012-20120628-213n6.html?rand=1340842487911

Doug Cameron describes the Greens as "impotent"; Milne says TPVs didn't stop SIEV X and asks "where's the proof that Malaysia will work"; Xenophon calls everyone else "petty pissants"; Abetz basically saying "compromise is for the weak".

[horace]

I thought Oz politics had reached its nadir when ljh and Reith played the dog whistle when the Tampa sunk...the present crew - all of them- are mining the depths that Reith and ljh sunk to

[embee]

I thought Oz politics had reached its nadir when ljh and Reith played the dog whistle when the Tampa sunk...the present crew - all of them- are mining the depths that Reith and ljh sunk to

Wow!

Pinko history is as good as Pinko Maths

[JGK]

Meh, it was the Tories who couldn't count how many children were thrown overboard.

[horace]

I thought Oz politics had reached its nadir when ljh and Reith played the dog whistle when the Tampa sunk...the present crew - all of them- are mining the depths that Reith and ljh sunk to

Wow!

Pinko history is as good as Pinko Maths

...hehehe...blame it on the sinking feeling I have whenever I think about the kids overboard or the current malaise...

....hopefully people like Abetz, MM, Gillard, Brown, Emerson, Hockey will never again be elected...

btw Hockey has blown out to such a size that he could qualify as Gina Hancocks brother

[JGK]

What the last few days have done is probably unite the Pinkos and Tories re the Greens (albeit for differing reasons). FFS, Milne is still talking about regional solutions; funding Indonesia to deal with the issue and so on. All decent ideas but all with a long lead time which won't help any of the next boatloads. They would prefer people to die on boats than maybe get caned in Malaysia.

The Oakshott Bill has a 12 month sunset clause. They should give the Malaysian solution 12 months to see if it works and in the meantime, the Government should commit to some of the "regional dialogue" stuff that the Greens want.

[JGK]

And on the Parliament blog:

1.50pm: I've flipped over now to tune into the green chamber, and have discovered Liberal and former tennis great John Alexander wearing a clown nose.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/politics-live-june-28-2012-20120628-213n6.html#ixzz1z3c1NVof

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