Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
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Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 03:02
(For example:) What's the linking factor between these dates?:
1889
1900
(1939 only)
1979
2000
Clue if needed:
1889
1900
(1939 only)
1979
2000
Clue if needed:
- Spoiler:
- It's all a load of balls, really.
Last edited by PeterCS on Sat 05 Jan 2013, 03:13; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 03:11
More testing perhaps is this:
Can you explain the origin of the following cricket terms?
(1-4 meaning the fielding positions, of course!)
1. "point"
2. "slip"
3. "cover"
4. "third man"
5. "the crease"
6. "the popping crease"
7. "the wicket"
8. "cricket"
Bonus: "Nelson"
(Answers in due course - but you can chase them all up via google if you prefer not to wait!)
Can you explain the origin of the following cricket terms?
(1-4 meaning the fielding positions, of course!)
1. "point"
2. "slip"
3. "cover"
4. "third man"
5. "the crease"
6. "the popping crease"
7. "the wicket"
8. "cricket"
Bonus: "Nelson"
(Answers in due course - but you can chase them all up via google if you prefer not to wait!)
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by tricycle Sat 05 Jan 2013, 03:39
- Spoiler:
Slip- to catch slips from the bat. Long stop's function, I remember.
Cover- covers point to middle wicket
Third man- 3rd man in the field setup?
Crease- a literal crease, maybe? Like taking guard now
Nelson- Admiral Horatio Nelson
Cricket- the insect?
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 04:11
Not sure if to bother with the Spoiler, but anyway ....
- Spoiler:
Slip - Yes. Apparently the meaning of the batsman making a mistake in his stroke.
The basic positions behind the bat on the offside in Nyren's day (1833) were "Short-slip" (anywhere modern third slip / gully-ish), and "Long-slip" (behind modern "point"), meant to stop, or even better, catch "false" shots.
Long-stop was actually directly behind the stumper and wicket, since wicketkeeping was not a specialist position in those old days - the other bowler (not bowling) often stood up to the wicket for his bowling colleague - hence the long-stop was to cover errant or freakish deliveries, and the stumper's mistakes.
Cover - yes, a later term, to cover the area between point to "middle wicket" (= modern "mid-off": any gentleman was expected to score the vast majority of his runs on the off side, after all!)
Nyren expressed "cover" as "Long-field to cover the Middle Wicket and Point" (!)
Third Man - a bit more specific than you say, perhaps. Arises from the explanation of "short-slip" and "long-slip" above. Later in the 19th century, as roundarm and then overarm bowling came in, and bowlers tended more to target off stump and around, it was found necessary to supplement the two basic catching/stopping positions (with someone wider than "Long-stop", who began to become obsolete!). This was the third man behind square on the off.
Crease. Yes. Was usually a line scratched across the ground, not painted. "Crease" = "furrow".
Nelson ..... meaning (?)
Not the insect!
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by Bradman Sat 05 Jan 2013, 04:14
PeterCS wrote:(For example:) What's the linking factor between these dates?:
1889
1900
(1939 only)
1979
2000
Clue if needed:
- Spoiler:
Dates when balls per over were changed in some way? Don't know what way.
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by Bradman Sat 05 Jan 2013, 04:16
Nelson
- Spoiler:
- any time an English score has the same three digits in it
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 04:19
The ballsy question ....
Yes, that's it!
Yes, that's it!
- Spoiler:
1889 - in England from (usually) four to five balls an over
1900 - in England from five to six balls an over
(1939 only for one season) - experiment in England with an eight-ball over
1979 - in Oz & NZ from (still normally) eight to six-ball overs
2000 - general international agreement (ICC) on six balls as standard
Bowl-outs came later!
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 04:21
Nelson - that's true to an extent (not for 444, 333, 555 though), but the question is rather, where does it come from.
It's not a patriotic celebration of the Battle of Trafalgar!
It's not a patriotic celebration of the Battle of Trafalgar!
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 04:23
Have to get to bed. Answers to the remaining bits another time (or google ...!).
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by tricycle Sat 05 Jan 2013, 04:44
PeterCS wrote:Nelson - that's true to an extent (not for 444, 333, 555 though), but the question is rather, where does it come from.
It's not a patriotic celebration of the Battle of Trafalgar!
- Spoiler:
- Said to have lost vision in one eye, and one arm and one leg. Don't think it's historically accurate though.
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by Bradman Sat 05 Jan 2013, 04:46
PeterCS wrote:Nelson - that's true to an extent (not for 444, 333, 555 though), but the question is rather, where does it come from.
It's not a patriotic celebration of the Battle of Trafalgar!
He only had one arm, one leg and one eye. Not sure about his balls, you'd have to ask Lady Emma.
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 13:06
Aye, that's it. Including that it was erroneous. His legs were fine. Middle leg too, probably.
Which reminds me: ...................................................
Can you explain the origin of the following cricket terms?
1. "point"
6. "the popping crease"
7. "the wicket"
8. "cricket"
Which reminds me: ...................................................
Can you explain the origin of the following cricket terms?
1. "point"
6. "the popping crease"
7. "the wicket"
8. "cricket"
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by WR Hammond Sat 05 Jan 2013, 13:25
Point = "At the point of the bat", originally a very close fielding position on the off side, popularised, I believe, by EM Grace
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 13:51
Exactly. Often close in, slightly forward of square. To cramp where the batsman would tend to guide offside shots (rather than straight driving).
For slow bowling only.
Nyren (1833) for example:
"THE POINT OF THE BAT (SLOW BOWLING)
...
He should place himself within three yards and a half of the batsman, directly opposite to the popping crease. This is nearer than is generally recommended. (... But) I have more frequently played at three yards than at three yards and a half from the batsman, and yet never received an injury from the ball. (....)
Independently of the [catching] advantage to be derived from playing so near, I never knew a batsman like to have the point moving in at every ball he blocked."
However, he does go on to concede, wisely:
... In fast bowling, the station of the point should be least seven yards from the batsman, and rather behind the popping crease.
For slow bowling only.
Nyren (1833) for example:
"THE POINT OF THE BAT (SLOW BOWLING)
...
He should place himself within three yards and a half of the batsman, directly opposite to the popping crease. This is nearer than is generally recommended. (... But) I have more frequently played at three yards than at three yards and a half from the batsman, and yet never received an injury from the ball. (....)
Independently of the [catching] advantage to be derived from playing so near, I never knew a batsman like to have the point moving in at every ball he blocked."
However, he does go on to concede, wisely:
... In fast bowling, the station of the point should be least seven yards from the batsman, and rather behind the popping crease.
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by Brass Monkey Sat 05 Jan 2013, 15:19
Bumble was on about 'the popping crease' during the WI Tests. I still don't quite get it. Well, I do, sort of, but would like a physical demonstration - something about batsmen having to put their bat in a hole for a run to count in days gone by. Weird.
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by tricycle Sat 05 Jan 2013, 16:19
Buckled and searched the origin of the term cricket. I'm still satisfied with insect...
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 17:54
Brass Monkey wrote:Bumble was on about 'the popping crease' during the WI Tests. I still don't quite get it. Well, I do, sort of, but would like a physical demonstration - something about batsmen having to put their bat in a hole for a run to count in days gone by. Weird.
My source puts it this way:
Under the early rules of cricket, to complete a 'notch', sometimes also called a 'run', the batsman had to place the end of his bat in a 'popping hole' that was cut into the turf. In order to get the batsman out, the fielding team had to put the ball in this hole before the batsman could reach it with his bat. However, this rule led to serious hand injuries, and came to be superseded by the batsman having to touch a stick held by the umpire. Eventually, the original 'popping hole' was represented symbolically by a line (which came to be called the popping crease) to signify the proper completion of a run.
(Geoff Tibballs, No-Balls & Googlies. A Cricket Companion)
A few thoughts:
1. "However, this rule led to serious hand injuries ..."
2. It sounds very like reaching a base in baseball .... I wonder if in the past, a baseball batter used to have to touch the base with his bat? (As with TDs (which involve no touching-down) in American Football, the evolution from bat contact to getting a foot or any part of your body on the base (before you can be "thrown out", as used to happen with the ball in the "popping hole" in cricket) seems very plausible.)
3. And we thought WE were sex-obsessed. The description of the old procedures above ("popping it in", getting ends of bats or balls in holes, touching the umpire's stick, etc.) sounds like a load of Margaret-Mead-meets-Morris-dancing-and-Monty-Python-type fertility rituals!
4. So whose stick would the non-striker get to touch, according to that amended law of proper run completion? Did the umpires stand at both wickets? Or was the run deemed duly completed if only the striker got home?
5. The popping hole and the umpire's stick must have been early cricket history, because the 1744 Laws already talk of "ye popping crease".
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 17:56
tricycle wrote:Buckled and searched the origin of the term cricket. I'm still satisfied with insect...
You should enter for "I'm a Celebrity - Get Me Out of Here".
Okay, still awaiting explanations for "wicket" and (insect-unrelated) "cricket" ..... .....
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 17:57
Btw: "Umpire" also has an interesting origin ...
Anyone?
Anyone?
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by WideWally Sat 05 Jan 2013, 18:33
Um - An expression of indecision
Pyre - A pile or heap of wood or other combustible material used for burning the dead body of the dirty cheating bastard who gave you out.
Pyre - A pile or heap of wood or other combustible material used for burning the dead body of the dirty cheating bastard who gave you out.
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 19:00
Marty's response to that might be an interesting read ....
(Or Rachel's ... wherever she might be.)
(Or Rachel's ... wherever she might be.)
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by Bradman Sat 05 Jan 2013, 21:15
PeterCS wrote:tricycle wrote:Buckled and searched the origin of the term cricket. I'm still satisfied with insect...
You should enter for "I'm a Celebrity - Get Me Out of Here".
Both to do with sheep and shepherds?
Okay, still awaiting explanations for "wicket" and (insect-unrelated) "cricket" ..... .....
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sat 05 Jan 2013, 21:31
The UK edition of "Celebrity" (which I admit I've never watched beyond sneaky trailers, but it's difficult to avoid all mediafaffle) features undesirable "tasks" in the Aussie bush, such as necking all sorts of bush tucker. The creepy-crawlier the better, it seems.
I was suggesting (jokily) Trike has an insect fetish.
Or was yours only an answer to where the term "cricket" came from, bradders? *confused of Pomgolia*
I was suggesting (jokily) Trike has an insect fetish.
Or was yours only an answer to where the term "cricket" came from, bradders? *confused of Pomgolia*
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by Brass Monkey Sun 06 Jan 2013, 09:32
A wicket is like a little gate thingy, or that attachment to a gate - a bit like a 'style'. It's what they used to bowl underarm at when it was just a yeoman pasttime. Stumps obviously comes from when they were bowling at a tree.
Cricket is a funny one - I've read that really it's undefined. There're theories that it's some sort of Flemmish word, but I remain unconvinced.
Cricket is a funny one - I've read that really it's undefined. There're theories that it's some sort of Flemmish word, but I remain unconvinced.
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Re: Trivia & Quizzia 2013 (an occasional series, by whoever wishes)
by PeterCS Sun 06 Jan 2013, 12:04
Yes that's what a wicket was. Originally "wicket gate".
A small gate, originally composed of wooden laths, later also of metal bars, sometimes part of a larger door or gate for individual access - Andrew Mitchell style.
Cricket is, as Dan and Trike have said, still disputed.
The majority opinion has something to do with Old Norse words leading to "crooked" (like a shepherd's crook, a bishop's crook or crosier, a crutch for walking, a croquet stick which gave that more sedate sport its name, crochet as a form of knitting with a hooked or bent needle .....)
Of the various "stick and ball" games which have existed for donkey's ears and aeons, cricket conspicuously used a bent or hooked stick - it used to look more like a (field) hockey stick does these days (though "hockey" < "hooky" also seems obvious).
Incidentally re: "crooked": as Derek Bierley's two great books on cricket history make clear, the association of cricket with betting, cheating, corruption goes back pretty much to the origins of the game - aristocrats trying to make money as well as sport, and others betting and pulling fast ones on the side - and ran through the 19th century that is sometimes naively upheld to be a pristine age, cricket's Eden.
Not to say that corruption should not be resisted - and there is no place in AT World XIs for cheaters, clearly - but cricket was never an innocent pastime. John Major and his ilk take note.
A small gate, originally composed of wooden laths, later also of metal bars, sometimes part of a larger door or gate for individual access - Andrew Mitchell style.
Cricket is, as Dan and Trike have said, still disputed.
The majority opinion has something to do with Old Norse words leading to "crooked" (like a shepherd's crook, a bishop's crook or crosier, a crutch for walking, a croquet stick which gave that more sedate sport its name, crochet as a form of knitting with a hooked or bent needle .....)
Of the various "stick and ball" games which have existed for donkey's ears and aeons, cricket conspicuously used a bent or hooked stick - it used to look more like a (field) hockey stick does these days (though "hockey" < "hooky" also seems obvious).
Incidentally re: "crooked": as Derek Bierley's two great books on cricket history make clear, the association of cricket with betting, cheating, corruption goes back pretty much to the origins of the game - aristocrats trying to make money as well as sport, and others betting and pulling fast ones on the side - and ran through the 19th century that is sometimes naively upheld to be a pristine age, cricket's Eden.
Not to say that corruption should not be resisted - and there is no place in AT World XIs for cheaters, clearly - but cricket was never an innocent pastime. John Major and his ilk take note.
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