Re: The EPL thread (II)

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Let me rephrase that. I'm sure he's been perfectly adequate in most of his international games. But I could count on 2 fingers the games that 'to me' he has personally stood out as outstanding in. Personally I think he's a better player than Lampard, but as I say, IMO he's way too impatient and tries to find the killer pass all the time.

All my opinion of course.

And as mentioned, the likes of Golden Boy Deco are more than abject in a lot of their outings. Look pretty whilst they're on the ball though. All 30 seconds on the wing, with a little unimaginative dink either inside to the centre mid or behind to the wingback.

Deco is brilliance. You only have to watch him every week.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

[quote="spangler"][quote="JKLever"]

Gerrard is a damn fine player... Personally I think he's a better player than Lampard...All my opinion of course.

No, that is 100%, bona fide, irrefutable FACT...

Rubbish.

[JKLever]

LLL and his Frankie Lampard posters

[Brass Monkey]

What you seem to want is Dutch style total football. That's completely unrealistic.

Curtis Davies is class. You'll regret that.

Not sure about your summation but yes and yes.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Lampard is one of the best midfielders you're going to see in your lifetime. People will realise just how good he is when he's gone.

[G.Wood]

What you seem to want is Dutch style total football. That's completely unrealistic.

It worked for Australia again ( ) last night

[spangler]

I realise how good he is. I realise Gerrard is better.

[Brass Monkey]

Deco is brilliance. You only have to watch him every week.

Bullsh!t. He's a fine player, with fine skills. But he's mercurial. Yep, he's wicked to watch when inept Spanish defences are run ragged by his whole team and allow him a total rake of space, he can individually win games, but the fact is if you're talking in a pure midfielder context, he has nowhere near as much impact as Gerrard. His positioning is shithouse, he couldn't tackle a bait shop and shirks any sort of dirty work. So, in conclusion, they're incomparable.

[Merlin]

[quote]"Lara Lara Laughs"]Lampard is one of the best midfielders you're going to see in your lifetime. People will realise just how good he is when he's gone.[/quote]
Which may be sooner than you think!

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Deco is brilliance. You only have to watch him every week.

Bullsh!t. He's a fine player, with fine skills. But he's mercurial. Yep, he's wicked to watch when inept Spanish defences are run ragged by his whole team and allow him a total rake of space, he can individually win games, but the fact is if you're talking in a pure midfielder context, he has nowhere near as much impact as Gerrard. His positioning is shithouse, he couldn't tackle a bait shop and shirks any sort of dirty work. So, in conclusion, they're incomparable.

Crap. Not only is he phenomenally good at passing, he's got a great shot, he's a creative genius and he's got an engine as good as Roy Keane. He's like Riquelme but more mobile, quicker and cleverer. He's as good as Fabregas, if not better.

He's also one of the main reasons why Barca dominated La Liga and won the champions league. He's slightly declined due to injuries recently and it's been evident in Barca's performances.

He's class of the highest calibre.

[JKLever]

What you seem to want is Dutch style total football. That's completely unrealistic.

Curtis Davies is class. You'll regret that.

No, just a defence capable of passing under pressure. We've heard opposition teams managers tell their teams to press our back 4 because we can't play out from the back (Gus Hiddink most recently)

And once again, i'll say - most other teams shit all over us in terms of technical ability.And that goes back to the way we are develping our young players into Athletes rather than technicians. Ask most coaches around Europe and they'll agree this is our biggest downfall at international level.

I think i'll go with their theory rather than someone who thinks Curtis Davies is any good

But we'll agree to disagree because i'm bored of this discussion going round in circles and we've had it before.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Yeah, that's it Lever, don't argue point by point. Quote one line and then ramble. Well played.

I think you'll find that they'll highlight our mentality and way of playing rather than our technique. Teddy Sheringham said it when he retired "we need to learn to pass". Not "we can't pass". More like "we choose not to".

You're going to lose so many forum points when you realise that Davies is good. I can't take you seriously when you say that our side can't control or pass anyway.

[JKLever]

Yeah, that's it Lever, don't argue point by point. Quote one line and then ramble. Well played.

I'm not trying to play 'internet wars' though LLL. It's cool to disagree, there's no golden prize at the end of the rainbow for winning debates over the internets. Especially when what we basically disagree over is a matter of opinion.

'Can't control or pass' was harsh yes. But in international terms England are very much Spurs whilst the top sides are 'Arsenal & Manchester United'

[Ash]

our players are way way behind in terms of technical ability when compared with the top sides. ffs croatia gave us a masterclass a couple of months back.

only joe cole and wayne rooney are up there imo. but its ingrained into our football culture and its going to take time to change.

[Ash]

But in international terms England are very much Spurs whilst the top sides are 'Arsenal & Manchester United'

id say england are more middlesborough - one or two decent players and can be good on their day but generally crap and dull to watch

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Yeah, that's it Lever, don't argue point by point. Quote one line and then ramble. Well played.

I'm not trying to play 'internet wars' though LLL. It's cool to disagree, there's no golden prize at the end of the rainbow for winning debates over the internets. Especially when what we basically disagree over is a matter of opinion.

'Can't control or pass' was harsh yes. But in international terms England are very much Spurs whilst the top sides are 'Arsenal & Manchester United'

Fair enough, JKL. I'm not trying to win a war though. Just have a debate. Anyway I essentially agree with you. We need to pass more. I disagree that we don't have talented players.

Let's consult the book of merlin and "move on".

[Lara Lara Laughs]

But in international terms England are very much Spurs whilst the top sides are 'Arsenal & Manchester United'

id say england are more middlesborough - one or two decent players and can be good on their day but generally crap and dull to watch

I'd say our team is as good as Man United but we play like Liverpool under Gerard Houllier.

[Brass Monkey]

Deco is brilliance. You only have to watch him every week.

Bullsh!t. He's a fine player, with fine skills. But he's mercurial. Yep, he's wicked to watch when inept Spanish defences are run ragged by his whole team and allow him a total rake of space, he can individually win games, but the fact is if you're talking in a pure midfielder context, he has nowhere near as much impact as Gerrard. His positioning is shithouse, he couldn't tackle a bait shop and shirks any sort of dirty work. So, in conclusion, they're incomparable.

Crap. Not only is he phenomenally good at passing, he's got a great shot, he's a creative genius and he's got an engine as good as Roy Keane. He's like Riquelme but more mobile, quicker and cleverer. He's as good as Fabregas, if not better.

He's also one of the main reasons why Barca dominated La Liga and won the champions league. He's slightly declined due to injuries recently and it's been evident in Barca's performances.

He's class of the highest calibre.

OK. Don't take any points of my post in. Just go on about his quality attacking prowess again. I've seen him being subbed for being ineffectual quite a few times.

[JKLever]

But in international terms England are very much Spurs whilst the top sides are 'Arsenal & Manchester United'

id say england are more middlesborough - one or two decent players and can be good on their day but generally crap and dull to watch

middlesbro is a bit harsh, maybe thats fair enough for the last qualifying campaign but generally we've reached the Quarters before going out only on Pens.

Deffo Spurs for me

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Deco is brilliance. You only have to watch him every week.

Bullsh!t. He's a fine player, with fine skills. But he's mercurial. Yep, he's wicked to watch when inept Spanish defences are run ragged by his whole team and allow him a total rake of space, he can individually win games, but the fact is if you're talking in a pure midfielder context, he has nowhere near as much impact as Gerrard. His positioning is shithouse, he couldn't tackle a bait shop and shirks any sort of dirty work. So, in conclusion, they're incomparable.

Crap. Not only is he phenomenally good at passing, he's got a great shot, he's a creative genius and he's got an engine as good as Roy Keane. He's like Riquelme but more mobile, quicker and cleverer. He's as good as Fabregas, if not better.

He's also one of the main reasons why Barca dominated La Liga and won the champions league. He's slightly declined due to injuries recently and it's been evident in Barca's performances.

He's class of the highest calibre.

OK. Don't take any points of my post in. Just go on about his quality attacking prowess again. I've seen him being subbed for being ineffectual quite a few times.

What points? He's consistently good for Barca and was a key part of the great team that won the league/champions league double. That deals with the mecurial criticism. That also deals with the nowhere near as much impact as Gerrard criticism. As for his positioning and tackling - if I replied, I'd just be saying "watch the games". His tackling is good and "shirks any sort of dirty work" is just untrue. He works harder than anyone else in the midfield.

I as for your pure midfielder and comparison to Gerrard comments, I don't know what pure midfielder means and I didn't compare him to Gerrard, though I'd probably take a peak Deco over Gerrard but it'd depend on the rest of the team.

[Brass Monkey]

I do watch the games. Just probably not through rosetintedness. He doesn't tackle often, he isn't tactically part of the midfield in many games, he floats and therefore is positionally inept. Pure midfielders do a bit of everything, box to box, probably zonally mark and then man mark going back for free kicks and corners, get in there, spray the balls up etc. etc.

He doesn't do that, however much you want him to.

[Ash]

But in international terms England are very much Spurs whilst the top sides are 'Arsenal & Manchester United'

id say england are more middlesborough - one or two decent players and can be good on their day but generally crap and dull to watch

middlesbro is a bit harsh, maybe thats fair enough for the last qualifying campaign but generally we've reached the Quarters before going out only on Pens.

Deffo Spurs for me

but spurs at least play entertaining football and score a lot of goals! in 96-98 we were probably on a par with spurs, the passion to boot. since the SGE era, were more boro and i mean in terms of style and appeal. obviously better than that in terms of results (everton).

[Lara Lara Laughs]

I do watch the games. Just probably not through rosetintedness. He doesn't tackle often, he isn't tactically part of the midfield in many games, he floats and therefore is positionally inept. Pure midfielders do a bit of everything, box to box, probably zonally mark and then man mark going back for free kicks and corners, get in there, spray the balls up etc. etc.

He doesn't do that, however much you want him to.

It's not about what I want him to. I'm not saying he's a "pure midfielder" but then he doesn't need to be to be a great midfielder. I don't buy the "sometimes he's ineffective and floats and doesn't impact games" argument. Mainly because that's true of all midfielder. Nay, all football players. He's remarkably consistent, in my opinion.

I rate him very highly and it's nothing to do with rose tinted-ness. I was highly skeptical when we bought him from Porto ( I wanted a proper defensive midfielder) but he won me over.

He doesn't so much tackle but rather constantly pressures. No one could ever accuse him of not tracking back. His positioning is fine. I don't see any problem with it.

He's been instrumental in every side he's played in - Portugal, Porto and Barca. And he's won loads of trophies. He's pure class. If you disagree, so be it.

[Brass Monkey]

'We'?? Noice...

Yeah fair enough, we all see different things. To me, his tracking back and pressure isn't too good. He doesn't try and get in there, which is fine, but as we were comparing two different styles of players I thought it was all moot.

I, in no way, dispute the fact that he's class.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Forgetting the defensive stuff for a moment I'd be willing to say that he's the closest thing to Zidane in the game at the moment. His passing and vision are unbelievable. And I love the way he makes up for his lack of reach and height by just being balletically beautiful and brilliantly good.

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