Brad Hogg Charged Under Level 3 CoC

noelene wrote:Won't it be funny if Hoggy gets suspended and Singh gets cleared.
Well not really,for Hoggy anyway.

DJ_Smerk wrote:In my opinion I don't think Brad Hogg went out of his way to actually cause mass offence to Kumble and Dhoni. In the context of the other racial slurs thrown around in this test match, this small matter has risen in seriousness due to the Bhajji incident. If the Bhajji incident and poor umpring had never happened, this may have just been a case of "Sledging" and nothing more. I don't think Kumble would be up in arms if this had been the only incident that was going on, but with what has gone on before you can see why the BCCI would be pissed at the continuous abuse.

If this was the only incident, Kumble may have just fired back with a comment of his own and then things would have calmed down.

JGK wrote:This is what a level 3 offence is:

"The alleged offence has been reported under paragraph 3.3 of the ICC Code of Conduct which refers to players or team officials “using language or gestures that offends, insults, humiliates, intimidates, threatens, disparages or vilifies another person on the basis of that person’s race, religion, gender, colour, descent, or national or ethic origin”. "


Presumably calling Kumble a bastard is disparaging his "descent" but it seems a pretty long bow to draw. Hard to see how this offence could apply.

lardbucket wrote:Unless bastards are known to be more common in India.

Batman wrote:

lardbucket wrote:Unless bastards are known to be more common in India.

I would think there are more monkeys in India than bastards. Having children out of marriage is a strict taboo in society here and in this regard the sub-continent is still reserved. The cities are changing a bit with modernism but the people on a whole still live very conservative lives. So it is possible that having bastards may be a normal thing in Aus, but not acceptable in India and not something that is taken as a joke.

Henry wrote:"You are the bastard child of your whore mother"

Batman wrote:

JGK wrote:This is what a level 3 offence is:

"The alleged offence has been reported under paragraph 3.3 of the ICC Code of Conduct which refers to players or team officials “using language or gestures that offends, insults, humiliates, intimidates, threatens, disparages or vilifies another person on the basis of that person’s race, religion, gender, colour, descent, or national or ethic origin”. "


Presumably calling Kumble a bastard is disparaging his "descent" but it seems a pretty long bow to draw. Hard to see how this offence could apply.

Umm that would be how calling or not calling Symo a monkey is racist. Anyways thing is Indians and subis as a whole don't like slurs that target their parents or parentage in anyway and consider it worse than racism. No one is going to drink here with you if you make a crack at them like bastards. It will probably end up in murder in all likelyhood. In our culture the parents are revered to as creators and next to our Gods. They are held in a very holy respect. Thanks to Symo and Punter the whole cricketing world will now have to wake up to what is percieved individually as racism. ICC is sure going to be very busy in this respect.

JGK wrote:

Batman wrote:

JGK wrote:This is what a level 3 offence is:

"The alleged offence has been reported under paragraph 3.3 of the ICC Code of Conduct which refers to players or team officials “using language or gestures that offends, insults, humiliates, intimidates, threatens, disparages or vilifies another person on the basis of that person’s race, religion, gender, colour, descent, or national or ethic origin”. "


Presumably calling Kumble a bastard is disparaging his "descent" but it seems a pretty long bow to draw. Hard to see how this offence could apply.

Umm that would be how calling or not calling Symo a monkey is racist. Anyways thing is Indians and subis as a whole don't like slurs that target their parents or parentage in anyway and consider it worse than racism. No one is going to drink here with you if you make a crack at them like bastards. It will probably end up in murder in all likelyhood. In our culture the parents are revered to as creators and next to our Gods. They are held in a very holy respect. Thanks to Symo and Punter the whole cricketing world will now have to wake up to what is percieved individually as racism. ICC is sure going to be very busy in this respect.

I guess the point is, I can't see how the use of the word "bastard" can be an offence under that offence as it isn't directed at Kumble's race or religion and can only be directed at his descent if Kumble is in fact a bastard.

Henry wrote:"You are the bastard child of your whore mother"

furriner wrote:Why did I expect any different. The only real issues (Harby, Racism, Umpiring processes) in this Test are being swept away and we are either looking for convenient scapegoats (Bucknor, although he totally deserved to go after the series)) or descending into the ludicrous with the 'bastard' allegation.

Bastard can be a very offensive word in India, much much more so in Australia, while monkey isn't at all, not in the same sense. These are facts and Aussie forummers need to understand that.

But to stand on your high horse (Indian board) on a word like 'batsrad' and call it racism when one of your own players has recently used equally terrible words on a cricket fields is stupidity. At least BCCI could have thought of something better, is our board being run by Ponting clones? It isn't just the BCCI, all of it is descending into farce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8VmjDBymDI

Around the fifteenth second or so, Gambhir very clearly mouths the words 'Teri Maa Ko Ch**u" to Afridi, who (not in video) possibly started it and may have said something worse. So I'm not blaming Gambhir or Afridi

You can't hear it, but there are no two interpretations on what Gambhir is saying.

The point is $hite like this floats around all the time. For that matter what Gambhir was seen to say is as bad, if not worse, than calling someone a bastard (IMO).

The words, for those who do not know translate as "I'll eff your mother".

They should be making the evidence, the judgment, the ruling, the processes transparent. Or improving them. Instead they're all jockeying for position.

JGK wrote:

Batman wrote:

JGK wrote:This is what a level 3 offence is:

"The alleged offence has been reported under paragraph 3.3 of the ICC Code of Conduct which refers to players or team officials “using language or gestures that offends, insults, humiliates, intimidates, threatens, disparages or vilifies another person on the basis of that person’s race, religion, gender, colour, descent, or national or ethic origin”. "


Presumably calling Kumble a bastard is disparaging his "descent" but it seems a pretty long bow to draw. Hard to see how this offence could apply.

Umm that would be how calling or not calling Symo a monkey is racist. Anyways thing is Indians and subis as a whole don't like slurs that target their parents or parentage in anyway and consider it worse than racism. No one is going to drink here with you if you make a crack at them like bastards. It will probably end up in murder in all likelyhood. In our culture the parents are revered to as creators and next to our Gods. They are held in a very holy respect. Thanks to Symo and Punter the whole cricketing world will now have to wake up to what is percieved individually as racism. ICC is sure going to be very busy in this respect.

I guess the point is, I can't see how the use of the word "bastard" can be an offence under that offence as it isn't directed at Kumble's race or religion and can only be directed at his descent if Kumble is in fact a bastard.

JGK wrote:

Batman wrote:

JGK wrote:This is what a level 3 offence is:

"The alleged offence has been reported under paragraph 3.3 of the ICC Code of Conduct which refers to players or team officials “using language or gestures that offends, insults, humiliates, intimidates, threatens, disparages or vilifies another person on the basis of that person’s race, religion, gender, colour, descent, or national or ethic origin”. "


Presumably calling Kumble a bastard is disparaging his "descent" but it seems a pretty long bow to draw. Hard to see how this offence could apply.

Umm that would be how calling or not calling Symo a monkey is racist. Anyways thing is Indians and subis as a whole don't like slurs that target their parents or parentage in anyway and consider it worse than racism. No one is going to drink here with you if you make a crack at them like bastards. It will probably end up in murder in all likelyhood. In our culture the parents are revered to as creators and next to our Gods. They are held in a very holy respect. Thanks to Symo and Punter the whole cricketing world will now have to wake up to what is percieved individually as racism. ICC is sure going to be very busy in this respect.

I guess the point is, I can't see how the use of the word "bastard" can be an offence under that offence as it isn't directed at Kumble's race or religion and can only be directed at his descent if Kumble is in fact a bastard.

horace wrote:personally i dont care if hogg is sentenced if found guilty

taipan wrote:

JGK wrote:


I guess the point is, I can't see how the use of the word "bastard" can be an offence under that offence as it isn't directed at Kumble's race or religion and can only be directed at his descent if Kumble is in fact a bastard.

Well if he is a bastard there wouldn't be an offence anyway.

JGK wrote:Well if someone like me can figure it out, hopefully the match referee should have no problem.

taipan wrote:

JGK wrote:

Batman wrote:

JGK wrote:This is what a level 3 offence is:

"The alleged offence has been reported under paragraph 3.3 of the ICC Code of Conduct which refers to players or team officials “using language or gestures that offends, insults, humiliates, intimidates, threatens, disparages or vilifies another person on the basis of that person’s race, religion, gender, colour, descent, or national or ethic origin”. "


Presumably calling Kumble a bastard is disparaging his "descent" but it seems a pretty long bow to draw. Hard to see how this offence could apply.

Umm that would be how calling or not calling Symo a monkey is racist. Anyways thing is Indians and subis as a whole don't like slurs that target their parents or parentage in anyway and consider it worse than racism. No one is going to drink here with you if you make a crack at them like bastards. It will probably end up in murder in all likelyhood. In our culture the parents are revered to as creators and next to our Gods. They are held in a very holy respect. Thanks to Symo and Punter the whole cricketing world will now have to wake up to what is percieved individually as racism. ICC is sure going to be very busy in this respect.

I guess the point is, I can't see how the use of the word "bastard" can be an offence under that offence as it isn't directed at Kumble's race or religion and can only be directed at his descent if Kumble is in fact a bastard.

Well if he is a bastard there wouldn't be an offence anyway.

Batman wrote:

JGK wrote:Well if someone like me can figure it out, hopefully the match referee should have no problem.

Unfortunately the Match Referee is the problem as well. And yes if Indians are expected to be sensitive to words that offend Symo, then the same is to be expected of Hogg. Like I pointed out last night this is now all going to boil down to how every individual player is going to percieve of what words mean abuse or racism to him. Running off to school teachers over some sledges or for petty revenge and than holding Kangaroo Courts has brought the whole thing down to a ridiculous low.

JGK wrote:

Batman wrote:

JGK wrote:Well if someone like me can figure it out, hopefully the match referee should have no problem.

Unfortunately the Match Referee is the problem as well. And yes if Indians are expected to be sensitive to words that offend Symo, then the same is to be expected of Hogg. Like I pointed out last night this is now all going to boil down to how every individual player is going to percieve of what words mean abuse or racism to him. Running off to school teachers over some sledges or for petty revenge and than holding Kangaroo Courts has brought the whole thing down to a ridiculous low.

I think you are missing my point. Bastard is a non-race or religious specific term therefore cannot constitute a level 3 offence unless combined with "black", "curry-munching" etc. Sure, someone from India might be offended by the term but unless it is disparaging of their race or religion, it is not a level 3 offence.

"Monkey" on the other hand is unambiguosly a racially disparagin term (as Harby knows from the India incident) and therefore can constitute a level 3 offence.

bliksem wrote:

JGK wrote:

Batman wrote:

JGK wrote:Well if someone like me can figure it out, hopefully the match referee should have no problem.

Unfortunately the Match Referee is the problem as well. And yes if Indians are expected to be sensitive to words that offend Symo, then the same is to be expected of Hogg. Like I pointed out last night this is now all going to boil down to how every individual player is going to percieve of what words mean abuse or racism to him. Running off to school teachers over some sledges or for petty revenge and than holding Kangaroo Courts has brought the whole thing down to a ridiculous low.

I think you are missing my point. Bastard is a non-race or religious specific term therefore cannot constitute a level 3 offence unless combined with "black", "curry-munching" etc. Sure, someone from India might be offended by the term but unless it is disparaging of their race or religion, it is not a level 3 offence.

"Monkey" on the other hand is unambiguosly a racially disparagin term (as Harby knows from the India incident) and therefore can constitute a level 3 offence.

Is "monkey" a racially disparaging term though? I called Jay Patel a monkey on the C4 forum a year or so ago and he cried racism until his donuts were all soggy. I said that I hadn't meant it in any sort of racist way, just that I wanted to use a term that expressed my opinion that he was a dribbling cretin who hadn't evolved past picking nits from his pubes and eating them. The rest of the forummers backed me up on this at the time as well, although I did apologise if he felt I had racially abused him and offered to call him a deep-fried turd-sandwich instead if it would make him feel better.