This is why I worry for the grandkids generation

We are regularly seeing stories in the news of cyber bullying to the point of childrens suicides, online Jimmy Saville types grooming little girls and smaller boys, anorexia & self-harm sites. and a never ending stream of the vilest types of porn. Considering that my generations first encounter with porn was discovering a couple of penthouse or playboy with pages stuck together in a carrier bag hidden in bushes in a quiet wood, and a quiet, guilty snigger whilst ogling a few bare boobies ...... as teenagers - not seven or eight year olds stumbling across full-blown rough orgies in close-up online, that's probably the biggest worry.

Now, a few weeks ago, as responsible parents concerned about what the kids are exposed to, they had a quick browse of their tablets, and on the 9yo daughters they found an example of "tunnels & trains and wobbly music" , so to speak. On talking calmly about it, she  reveals that another kid has told her what to search for, which she did in all innocence.

They informed school of the issue, and the head decided on a pro-active response. The school arranged. at the cost of a few hundred pounds of their (very tight) budget, for a visit & talk by an internet security & associated issues type chap.

An invitation was sent to all parents, explaining that the talk would cover all aspects of children & the web, including signs to look for suggesting that a child was accessing inappropriate material, and what could be done about it. This was sent in plenty of time for the majority to attend.

I went over last night to look after the grandkids whilst daughter & hubby attended said chat.

Sooooooo  - why was I not greatly surprised that a grand total of about 6 or 7 other parents bothered their arses to actually turn up ? In years to come, some of those that didn't bother will question why their sons are accused of sexual offences, or their daughters stop eating properly and start cutting themselves, or in the worst case, actually take their own lives - then blame the schools for doing nothing to prevent it. FFS. Honestly, words fail me.

Tell me, is it simply a case of laziness & sheer stupidity on the part of modern parents in todays dangerous online world, or is it even worse, and that they really couldn't give a monkeys about their offsprings mental health and safety ?

I'd probably say all those parents are living in denial, Growls - except I don't actually believe there's a problem, or that any of it exists.


All right. Where to start?

First off: I thought this was going to be a thread about terrorism, the effects of climate change, shortages of foodstuffs and water, the growing power of the State .... which only makes what you actually discussed that much more depressing. Since it's one more strand of apprehension.

Is this a debate about pornography, particularly its deleterious effects on children, indirectly if not directly? It seems so.

I'm not sure. In the sense again of: Where to start?

Obesity, self-harming, violence (whether sexually orientated or sexually caused, or not), other severe social/societal problems and hazards such as a dazzling over-proliferation of information and opinion, and exploitation by profiteers who see opportunities rather than human beings - I'm not sure these are solely or even mainly attributable to a permissive, apathetic set of attitudes towards pornography, however hardcore.

What IS a common factor, however, is a huge problem of self-esteem and "self-knowledge" (that phrase is partly a cypher - for a working and workable set of values) and then a meaningful degree of respect towards others as well. I have no doubt that porn can seriously worsen this twin malaise, particularly in those most at risk (through parental neglect and/or abuse, lack of love, shortage of personal education & individual character development - many factors there).

This may seem an outrageous claim, but EVEN nine-year-olds unwittingly with orgies on their devices ... that is not the heart of the problem. It shouldn't happen, of course, but if that were the extent of it, I think it would pretty much be water off a duck's back. The real problem there is the vulnerability, the set of (apparent) assumptions and attitudes that surround that sort of "manifestation of depravity". If kids (or indeed, let's face it, adults either) don't value themselves sufficiently - don't have the rich set of chances to develop self-esteem, and self-knowledge, and so distance, and so defence against the Rolf Harrises, Max Cliffords, the priests, or God help us, the Fred and Rosemary Wests .... or for that matter against the wills and depredations of bullying kids, pushy school- and college friends, powerful adults, media bombardments and also advertising agencies, then in human terms you really have a nightmare scenario.


Except .... where to start? Everyone has their own solutions, but unless you believe in an all-powerful God, few would say there is one patent answer.

In the case that especially made you throw your arms up in despair, here are a few thoughts that occurred to me:

a> how well, and how urgently, was the evening advertised? There is a danger that you feel this is the most important issue facing humanity today (and the day after yesterday), but you merely send a ducks-back circular about (yet) another warning to adults they should come along and get told how to keep their kids safe.

b> is it clear that the parents could (and could afford to) all arrange childcare, for the event?

c> is a parents' information evening necessarily the best way to help deal with the problem(s)? (Especially if it was arranged in the form of an expert talking.) A hands-on presentation or even a decently-done youtube might be fresher and more effective?

d> a big mistake in such cases is to give the thing one chance, and if it flops publicity/turnout-wise, to throw in the towel. The second effort, tedious as it is to try again, is often more effective. Partly because lessons can be learnt from the failure of the first. Partly because parents (and people) can be slow to "get the message" - especially if that message seems to be a repeat of one they have heard of many times.

e> adults are qunts. I blame the parents.

Good stuff, Growls. Sage stuff, Pete. A sad situation indeed.

We live in a world in which young girls and boys are very unlucky, because they have no clear gender roles, and they will not logically progress to become women and men respectively. Some people think that androgyny is a good thing but it is a symptom of the over-sexualised culture we live in, in which men and women only have the feeling of embracing their natural masculinity and feminity when embracing their sexuality. It is a difficult world for them because it is thrown in their face from the very beginning of their lives.

The rise of social media, meanwhile, has transformed the sexual landscape completely. Boys and girls used to mingle within their villages, within their locality, now through facebook, girls in particular are getting sexual attention from all around the globe, and they're not educated enough to know that it is often the wrong kind of attention. Meanwhile, the boys in this environment suffer due to the hyper-competitive nature of it, and they are trammelled instead into a world in which they feel as if they must fight and fight for their masculinity, and in seeing that other guys who are sexually successful are arse-holes, they embrace this role and become bullies, treat all women as if they are sluts, etc.

Hence, it becomes a vicious cycle, and what you are seeing here is just the age at which it all begins, at which the battle lines are drawn, wherein men and women are, ultimately, adversaries, lacking in a clear, positive sexual identiy, unable to embrace their masculinity and femininity respectively. And it comes to a point where they realise that their friends, be they male or female, are all combatants in the game, who they can defeat and shame, by hook or by crook. And it goes backwards and forwards, until such time as we are allowed to educate men in the art of being a man, and women in the art of being a woman.

Until then there will only be negative sexual identities that prevail, from a pre-pubescent age right up into puberty, whereupon it is too late, and sex becomes a game in which both participants are trying to find themselves, trying to find a high, trying to locate the great meaning in it all, without realising that they were doomed from the start because it was always they who were the problem, in the way they were raised. We're in the world of postmodern sexuality in which it is all broken and there is no fixing it. Society has hidden away the animal yet the animal is unique to the individual, and it still wants to get out.

That's a good read, Gussie.

Aldous Huxley and his 'off to the feelies' and 'sex games' were much more prescient than Orwell's '1984'.

But probably mainly because he was very aware of wandering-handed tendencies in his (visually challenged) self. Projection of his own creepier impulses on to a dystopic future. Can claim the moral high ground that way. And have a right-on indulge at the same time.

I didn't read it that way; but then I didn't know anything about his wandering hands, eyes, or other bits - only his wondering mind!