Re: Nathan Lyon ...not long until he breaks an Oz record

by lardbucket Thu 28 Jul 2016, 11:40

200 now. Will he go past Swann?

by skully Thu 28 Jul 2016, 12:53

Well played Elmer. Justifies the faith the selectors showed in him.

by lardbucket Mon 08 Aug 2016, 11:07

yet ... he bowls better at home than on wickets that should help him. How strange.

by Henry Mon 08 Aug 2016, 11:10

His main weapon is bounce rather than turn, which means he's less effective in the Sub Continent.

by skully Mon 08 Aug 2016, 12:15

lardbucket wrote:yet ... he bowls better at home than on wickets that should help him. How strange.

Henry wrote:His main weapon is bounce rather than turn, which means he's less effective in the Sub Continent.

Aye x 2.

by horace Mon 08 Aug 2016, 17:16

My sentimudges with Henry's comment about bounce being Lyon's chief (only?) weapon. Even in Oz he is more effective in the first innings than the second, when the wicket generally offers less bounce but more spin.

Perhaps his future test selection should be confined to Oz and SA.

The disappointing thing is that for all his experience and opportunities, he has not learnt to adapt to bowling on the slow wickets of the subi con. Further he has never learned the skill of tying up an end.

by lardbucket Mon 19 Dec 2016, 04:36

Re-evaluation time again, prompted in part by horrie's constant naysaying:

With Colin Miller probably not having played enough Test cricket to be included in any comparison, there are really only two off-spinners that Lyon can be compared with - Mallett and Yardley.

by total wickets: Lyon >>> Mallett ~ Yardley

by runs/wicket average: Mallett > Yardley > Lyon

by economy rate: Mallett >> Yardley > Lyon

by strike rate: Lyon > Yardley > Mallett

I'm sure Horrie will be surprised to learn that over their LONG careers, Lyon has shown greater penetration than both Mallett (generally accepted as the best off-spinner to come out of Australia since 1970, though his stats were certainly improved over the period 1974-1977 by his frequent mopping-up acts after Lillee, Thomson, Walker and Gilmour had cleaned up the batsmen) and Bruce Yardley.

Yardley and especially Mallett had fairly decent keepers behind the stumps for much of their careers ... Marsh and Rixon. Lyon has mostly had to contend with Wade and Haddin, both of whom were chosen for their batting rather than their superior keeping skills.

by taipan Mon 19 Dec 2016, 05:24

These pesky facts keep getting in the way.

And addition Lyon is playing in an era of faster scoring rates which will affect his economy rate and possibly his average.

by Nath Mon 19 Dec 2016, 06:39

does he hold the record for most ineffective spinner in the 4th innings to take over 200 Test wickets? Embarassed

by lardbucket Mon 19 Dec 2016, 07:28

Probably. What's Vettori's 4th innings record like?

by WideWally Mon 19 Dec 2016, 08:18

lardbucket wrote:Probably. What's Vettori's 4th innings record like?

Vettori

Lyon

by Big Dog Mon 19 Dec 2016, 08:38

WideWally wrote:
lardbucket wrote:Probably. What's Vettori's 4th innings record like?

Vettori

Lyon

Not much between them.

by taipan Mon 19 Dec 2016, 08:40

Big Dog wrote:
WideWally wrote:
lardbucket wrote:Probably. What's Vettori's 4th innings record like?

Vettori

Lyon

Not much between them.

Not that surprised. I always had a gut feeling that Vettori was overrated by commentators.

by horace Mon 19 Dec 2016, 11:08

So ataips, is Lyon over rated?

by taipan Mon 19 Dec 2016, 11:20

Basically all Aus spinners not named Warne are overrated. Aus has scarcely produced a decent spinner since WW2

by lardbucket Sat 04 Mar 2017, 23:48

Brass Monkey wrote:
lardbucket wrote:He's no Graeme Swann.

No he's not. Nor are most spinners.

laughable comparison really

by lardbucket Sat 04 Mar 2017, 23:57

more seriously ... 241 now, with Benaud (248) only just ahead, then an Arctic summer's daylight, then Warne.

by JGK Sun 05 Mar 2017, 03:42

RH OBs ahead of him on the AT list:

M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) 800
Harbhajan Singh (INDIA) 417
LR Gibbs (WI) 309
R Ashwin (INDIA) 261
GP Swann (ENG) 255
NM Lyon (AUS) 241

by horace Sun 05 Mar 2017, 03:56

JGK wrote:RH OBs ahead of him on the AT list:

M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) 800 ***]
Harbhajan Singh (INDIA) 417 **
LR Gibbs (WI) 309
R Ashwin (INDIA) 261
GP Swann (ENG) 255 *
NM Lyon (AUS) 241

*** on list if chuckers are included
** on list if psychopathic racist Turdanators are included
* on list if arrogant chinheads are included

Ok I admit to bias. I was privileged to have watched Lance Gibbs bowl and to have met him when I was a young cricket fan.

by lardbucket Mon 04 Sep 2017, 08:04

lardbucket wrote:
Brass Monkey wrote:
lardbucket wrote:He's no Graeme Swann.

No he's not. Nor are most spinners.

laughable comparison really

Past Swann now.

by lardbucket Tue 05 Dec 2017, 07:46

lardbucket wrote:Re-evaluation time again, prompted in part by horrie's constant naysaying:

With Colin Miller probably not having played enough Test cricket to be included in any comparison, there are really only two off-spinners that Lyon can be compared with - Mallett and Yardley.

by total wickets: Lyon >>> Mallett ~ Yardley

by runs/wicket average: Mallett > Yardley > Lyon

by economy rate: Mallett >> Yardley > Lyon

by strike rate: Lyon > Yardley > Mallett

I'm sure Horrie will be surprised to learn that over their LONG careers, Lyon has shown greater penetration than both Mallett (generally accepted as the best off-spinner to come out of Australia since 1970, though his stats were certainly improved over the period 1974-1977 by his frequent mopping-up acts after Lillee, Thomson, Walker and Gilmour had cleaned up the batsmen) and Bruce Yardley.

Yardley and especially Mallett had fairly decent keepers behind the stumps for much of their careers ... Marsh and Rixon. Lyon has mostly had to contend with Wade and Haddin, both of whom were chosen for their batting rather than their superior keeping skills.

A year on ...

by total wickets: Lyon > Mallett + Yardley (soon, you'll be able to throw Colin Miller in as well)

by runs/wicket average: Mallett > Lyon > Yardley (Lyon moving closer to Mallett over 2017)

by economy: Mallett > Yardley > Lyon (probably proportional to changing scoring rates over the same period)

by strike rate: Lyon >> Yardley >> Mallett (perhaps also proportional to an increasingly carefree approach to batting)

Best Australian spinner of the last 50 years - bar Warne.

by horace Tue 05 Dec 2017, 08:21

Prolly correct. As I noted elsewhere he returned from the subi-con tours a more confident and better bowler.

You seem to have an unhealthy fixation. Others have been critical of Lyon.

by lardbucket Tue 05 Dec 2017, 08:27

I'm the one with an unhealthy fixation?

Just noting his continued good progress. He seems to be confounding several early critics.

by Nath Tue 05 Dec 2017, 09:12

still doesn't really have much of an arm ball or one that goes the other way, but that's really nitpicking right now

by WideWally Tue 05 Dec 2017, 09:17

Nath wrote:still doesn't really have much of an arm ball or one that goes the other way, but that's really nitpicking right now

What happened to Jeff (or Geoff)?

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