English Domestic Season 2021

furriner wrote:It’s a hell of a mess.  Vaughan looks set to lose his media career, at least for a while especially now that one of the supposed witnesses Rana appears to have corroborated Azeem’s story.

Ballance is f@cked, I would guess.

For English forummers - are there be any circumstances where the use of the ‘P’ word by a Caucasian to a South Asian may be described as banter?  

I do know that the ‘N’ word in the US is a no go for anyone who’s not black and there are no extenuating circumstances whatsoever. Mayyyyyybe if you’re Latino but probably even then very very rarely, and even then certainly not publicly I’d imagine.

So for the official report to say that the ‘P’ word was ‘banter in context’, or something such, is mind boggling to me.

I could be wrong though, don’t much understand cultural nuances over there.

P*** IS just banter in Aust, its just part of our tradition of shortening names. There is no underlying racial intent.. .

Having said that, I've never seen that 4 letter abbreviation used in Australia in any other context than to summarise their national team, where it is or at least has been an abbreviation in the same sense as barbie, dossier, etc. I've never seen it used in a social context towards an individual, as in England, where with the traditional English lip curl and sneer, I can see that it would develop into something at least as offensive as any three letter abbreviation for a member of our own our own indigenous population.

Yeah, in the UK it is the closest thing to the N-word for people of South Asian background, strongly linked to racial violence in decades gone by. And it is used as a term of abuse against anyone of South Asian appearance, not necessarily Pakistani as such.

Younger people perhaps don’t initially realise the weight the word carries, and not trying to excuse Ballance but he didn’t grow up in the UK either, so wouldn’t have been exposed to that. Whether he was alone in using it among Yorkshire players, though, who knows.

It just goes to show how utterly out of touch YCCC are by dismissing the use of the "p" word as banter.

So context is critical.

In Australia ‘we’ love to abbreviate ... barbie, cozzie, Sozzie, Wozzie, Kiwi, Tassie, and for a representative if the Pakistani national team, a similar abbreviation. No Indian, Sri Lankan, Burmese person, Fijian of Indian ethnicity, etc would ever be labelled in the same way ... in Australia.

The world is however shrinking and a term of abuse on one side of the world is likely to be heard as such the world over these days. Habits born in innocence will not be seen that way in a world that loves to pick up every slight, intended or not. Bert Newton RIP found this out to his cost years ago with Ali and was probably lucky not to be beaten to death for a slight he never intended but which rendered Ali incandescent.

I’m not sure Mitsubishi have had much success with their Pajero in Mexico, for similar reasons. Nor is Siri likely to take off in Georgia.

On the 50th anniversary of release, I’d therefore like to say ‘and you know sometimes words have two meanings’!

CEO Mark Arthur departs Yorkshire, with Martyn Moxon on mental health leave and Andrew Gale suspended there’s virtually nobody left standing now.

Seems Root could have dug himself a bit of a hole by claiming not to have witnessed any racism at the club.

So, Gale gets suspended for making an anti-semitic remark, yet suffered no consequence for aiming racist remarks at someone of Pakistani heritage.

Some Yorkshire members wrote an anti-Rafiq letter to the board last month saying he was “on a one-man mission to destroy the club” and “didn’t share the White Rose values” (presumably with the emphasis on the “white”).

Meanwhile, Essex’s chairman has resigned after an alleged historic racist remark in a board meeting (apparently used an “outdated phrase”, which usually means the one referring to a woodpile).

Getting messier in Chavland as well, with the Pants also the subject of an accusation, while Adil Rashid becomes the third player to back up the Vaughan comment.

All 18 counties are going to be kicked out at this rate…

It would be interesting to know whether or not Monty Panesar experienced any racism at Northamptonshire.

Maybe it’s all a conspiracy to disband the counties and have the eight Hundred teams for all formats

In all seriousness though it just gets uglier. Not sure anyone at Yorkshire past or present has a leg to stand on, except perhaps Root but even he only has one as opposed to two…

A few questionable (if not quite Robinson-esque) tweets from Vaughan back up that it’s the sort of thing he might have said, though sure he intended it as “banter” as opposed to hate. Media career probably over, though, and think same is likely to be true of Bumble who was seemingly waging a vendetta against Rafiq aming colleagues. Start the car. Obviously can’t excuse it and his time was coming to an end anyway but Sky are rapidly running out of people of talent/personality and disappearing into a Ward/Knight-shaped pit of blandness… BT have a chance to stake a claim to England cricket coverage’s iron throne this winter.

Tim Bresnan calling someone fat has to be the most ridiculous part of all this

It's particularly disappointing that Bumble has been sucked into this. He should have known better. I suspect he might survive in Sky's comm box, but his days are surely numbered. Bresnan sounds like a piece of work.

Hoggard also implicated in creating a racist nickname for Rafiq, which he’s apologised for. Allegations that Yorkshire covered up Ballance’s drink and drug problems under the banner of “mental health issues” and allowed him to miss tests (not Tests…)

The ECB must have a template they email to all individuals caught saying something they shouldn't "I unreservedly............"

The whole episode does perhaps highlight why so few highly promising English players of Asian background have really fulfilled their potential. Even when such players have been a success with England in one or more formats they’ve often seemed to remain outsiders and fall guys with the establishment (Moeen and Monty - or should we call him by his full name of Mudhsuden Singh Panesar now - among the obvious examples).

As for Bumble, well he’s nearly 75, probably time for him to step aside quietly (if he can do anything quietly!) Mascot Grand National will never be the same again though. Can’t imagine Athers or Nasser getting over-excited while charging around after a bunch of men and women in animal costumes…

beamer wrote:As for Bumble, well he’s nearly 75, probably time for him to step aside quietly (if he can do anything quietly!) Mascot Grand National will never be the same again though. Can’t imagine Athers or Nasser getting over-excited while charging around after a bunch of men and women in animal costumes…

I would pay good money to see that.......oh wait, I already do!

Have read the full statement transcript now. Pretty much everyone senior at the club, present and past within the time period covered, comes out of it extremely badly, to the extent of “he should never be allowed to be involved in cricket again”.

Sounds like the entire club’s just rotten to the core with attitudes that were commonplace 50 years ago and just get passed down from one generation to the next. Gale sounds perhaps the worst (remember when he was seen as a wildcard outsider for the England job, can you imagine?) but seemingly modelled himself on/learnt from their “greats” of the past. Even outsiders like Mark Arthur (former Notts and Forest CEO, didn’t cover himself in glory with the latter at least) seem to get swept up in acceptance and denial of this culture.

Not sure what they do now. Will they even have a team to field by next season? Banish them to Minor Counties perhaps, but then you probably kill off the recreational game in England’s most celebrated cricketing county (and a Test venue with it, and perhaps a rugby league club caught in the crossfire). Is it worth saving though? What’s at the top, i.e. the county club, probably reflects what’s underneath as well.

Root needs to retract his statement and stop covering for Ballance and co. or lose the England captaincy.

Of course there’s two sides to every story… but the amount of detail in this, there’s no way it’s a case of sour grapes.

Admittedly, professional sport is a cut-throat business that’s not for the faint hearted and there’s a fine line between tough love and bullying, as we’ve seen from things like cycling. But there’s some lines that just can’t be crossed and racism is one of them.

All the Yorkshire coaching team have departed. How many of the players will follow, I wonder?

Darren Gough in as interim director of cricket.

You’d have thought the last thing they need is another white Yorkshireman in a senior role (though they must have gone through his social media history with a fine tooth comb, he has to have been part of the dressing-room culture in the ‘90s and ‘00s…) I suspect it’s linked to a rumoured player mutiny which could have worsened had they brought in a bunch of outsiders.

beamer wrote:Darren Gough in as interim director of cricket.

You’d have thought the last thing they need is another white Yorkshireman in a senior role

Orange.

Dello wrote:

beamer wrote:Darren Gough in as interim director of cricket.

You’d have thought the last thing they need is another white Yorkshireman in a senior role

Orange.

Well, yeah, there is that. Same ethnicity as Donald Trump then, which isn’t a good sign either…

beamer wrote:

Dello wrote:

beamer wrote:Darren Gough in as interim director of cricket.

You’d have thought the last thing they need is another white Yorkshireman in a senior role

Orange.

Well, yeah, there is that. Same ethnicity as Donald Trump then, which isn’t a good sign either…

And they both have dodgy hair.