England v NZ, 3rd Test, Trent Bridge, 5th-9th June

What a great day for England; blown the poor NewZees into a defeat. Awful for them if it'd be by an innings.

eowyn wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:

THICKEDGE wrote:Looks like Brass Monkey needs a new picture...

Done.

I love your rusty trombome.

PURRLEASE! This is a family forum.

JKLever wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:

THICKEDGE wrote:Looks like Brass Monkey needs a new picture...

Done.

The frustrating thing with Jim is that he has got talent.
You just wish he learns like Hoggard did and that if it doesn't swing you can't keep bowling pitched up deliveries in non-swinging conditions. Got to learn to bowl cutters etc...
And he's simply got to learn to bore batsmen out sometimes on flatties.

True but ... he swings it both ways in grey conditions. And at fair speed, with his whirring delivery.

And if the "English conditions" are there, it's difficult for even the best batsmen to counter that with any certainty.

And - freaky though it is to say it - with a consistent build in confidence and his tail-up as a result - he might not be all that harmless in the Ashes.

I emphasise again - "in English conditions". If 2009 is a similarly crappy summer ...

We've heard it all before though. And the fact is until he proves us otherwise, todays offering is just another part of 'The Anderson Cycle'

Dello wrote:Was wondering when the last time was that an England bowler made fifty. Was it really as far back as Gilo in the last Test of the 2005 Ashes?

Yes, Liam Plunkett's 44* against the Windies at Headingley last year was the best score by a regular bowler between Giles' 59 and Broad's 64. I haven't looked up all the figures but I would guess that Broad's score is the best by a regular England bowler since Alex Tudor's 99* (although the latter came in as a nightwatchman) also against NZ at Edgbaston in 1999.

Wonder when the last time was a player (of any Test country) turned in his personal best batting and bowling performances on the same day.

The nearest I can think is I.T.Botham who scored 108 (subsequently overhauled) and then took 8-34 (which remained his career best figures) in Pakistan's second innings (but on different days) at Lord's in 1978.

JKLever wrote:We've heard it all before though. And the fact is until he proves us otherwise, todays offering is just another part of 'The Anderson Cycle'

Yes, I know.

But it could just be a moped this time.

Allan D wrote:

Dello wrote:Was wondering when the last time was that an England bowler made fifty. Was it really as far back as Gilo in the last Test of the 2005 Ashes?

Yes, Liam Plunkett's 44* against the Windies at Headingley last year was the best score by a regular bowler between Giles' 59 and Broad's 64. I haven't looked up all the figures but I would guess that Broad's score is the best by a regular England bowler since Alex Tudor's 99* (although the latter came in as a nightwatchman) also against NZ at Edgbaston in 1999.

Wonder when the last time was a player (of any Test country) turned in his personal best batting and bowling performances on the same day.

The nearest I can think is I.T.Botham who scored 108 (subsequently overhauled) and then took 8-34 (which remained his career best figures) in Pakistan's second innings (but on different days) at Lord's in 1978.

Mick made one recently.

(My real point being: What constitutes a "bowler"?? Broad looks like a half-fledged all-rounder to me.)

Nah, he's a numero 8

Brett Lee stylee... Not good enough to be an all rounder but very dangerous from number 8

The only thing Broad got wrong today was bowling his normal length, which was probably half a yard short of what it needed to be.

I think he has the style and technique of a number 7 meself.

PeterCS wrote:I think he has the style and technique of a number 7 meself.

.He's certainly better than we were led to expect.

England's 6,7,8 for the first test against S.A.

Ambrose
Broad
Flintoff

Just a thought............

Could be.

Fred shouldn't bat higher until he proves he should.

Basil wrote:

PeterCS wrote:I think he has the style and technique of a number 7 meself.

.He's certainly better than we were led to expect.

England's 6,7,8 for the first test against S.A.

Ambrose
Broad
Flintoff

Just a thought............

If he's fit, Flintoff seems most likely to replace Broad (now that Jammy has locked himself in for the next decade), given that his bowling has been a big, fat, pile of nothing thus far.

Perhaps he's the new Giles.

Dello wrote:I blame Big_Bad_Bob for this. He said he was going to heckle young Jammy, but he's obviously done a lousy job of undermining his confidence.

Should've opened with "your hair's shit" and watched him crumple like a cheap suit.

By extension I blame my cricket club's selection committee for putting me in the 1st XI.

If I was in the 2nd XI I wouldn't have given a sh*t and been tw*tted by the time England came out to bowl and Jimmykins would have had both barrels.

As it was I'd barely reached merry, and then just watched agog as Ando bent the off peg back twice in rapid succession, and any subsequent abuse would have been but churlish.

So there you have it - when the Saffies are smashing him at 6 an over and rattling up 500+ later in the summer, just remember you have WBCC's selection committee to blame for your suffering.

Mind you - I'd drunk enough to display my ire at the decision to call the game off at 5.40pm for bad light when they could have been playing a whole hour and 20 minutes later. Utter joke of a decision - the groundstaff and stewards were casting shadows at that point, and this was clearly a decision motivated by the ECB trying to ensure that there is at least some play on Sunday and they don't have to give us any cash back.

The outfield therefore received a spectacular, swooping arc of what was left of my pint.

Wasn't impressed.

Dello wrote:

Basil wrote:

PeterCS wrote:I think he has the style and technique of a number 7 meself.

.He's certainly better than we were led to expect.

England's 6,7,8 for the first test against S.A.

Ambrose
Broad
Flintoff

Just a thought............

If he's fit, Flintoff seems most likely to replace Broad (now that Jammy has locked himself in for the next decade), given that his bowling has been a big, fat, pile of nothing thus far.

Perhaps he's the new Giles.

Oh FFS! - Bell on his way out (probably) so there has to be a new target doesn't there?!

No, you're right, Broad - picked for his bowling - has really justified his selection in this series (3 wickets @ 76).

This isn't a bandwagon thing either - I've always maintained that he's been thrown in too early.

Dello wrote:
This isn't a bandwagon thing either - I've always maintained that he's been thrown in too early.

And I've pretty much agreed with that but feel we should stick with him for now. He's been tidy but non-threatening, true.

Dunno, I just see 'something' there. The right attitude. Made of the right stuff. Whatever you want to call it. Spunk.

Plus it is quite humourous when you have a Harry Potter star biffing the oppo in the lower order.

His only sin today was bowling a fraction too short - he's worth persevering with for another couple of tests to see how his bowling comes on. Apart from anything else - he has the chutzpah for test cricket.

Sure enough, he's passed the "character test" - he's got some fight in him.

But if you want 20 wickets and you've only got a four man attack, I don't see how you can carry a guy playing in stabilisers and expect to bundle teams out on the cheap - especially when, of the other three bowlers, one can't bowl when it's sunny and one can't take wickets on days one, two and three.

He's not pulling his weight as a bowler, and that's the bottom line if you're really serious about winning cricket matches. He's had five Tests, there's been some "positives" and plenty of stuff to work on.

Won't do him any harm to drop out and come back stronger down the line.

Basil wrote:His only sin today was bowling a fraction too short - he's worth persevering with for another couple of tests to see how his bowling comes on. Apart from anything else - he has the chutzpah for test cricket.

Agree, he has a future in Team England, but like t'others on here, I too think he's been thrown in a tad early.
Anyway with a fit Flintoff back against SA, and should both Jimmy and Sibo carry on in current mode, Broad has to miss out.
And no, we don't need a fourth quick coz' Flintoff will only be in the side for his bowling!

It would present an interesting choice for the selectors if the 1st SA Test was next week and Fred was fit, however.

They're not going to drop any one of Ryan King, Ando or Monty now, and they won't want to drop Broad.

Given the pressure on Bell and Colly, the easy option at this point would be to drop one of them and just bring in Fred.

Not saying I'd agree with it, but they'd definitely discuss it as an option.

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:It would present an interesting choice for the selectors if the 1st SA Test was next week and Fred was fit, however.

They're not going to drop any one of Ryan King, Ando or Monty now, and they won't want to drop Broad.

Given the pressure on Bell and Colly, the easy option at this point would be to drop one of them and just bring in Fred.

Not saying I'd agree with it, but they'd definitely discuss it as an option.

Aye ... in which case I see (sadly) Colly getting the chop whilst Bell gets reprieved ( ... bo!!*cks.)
But then there'd only be 5 recognized batsmen, well in truth, only four, if discarding Bells contributions ...
We'd be right royally farked ....

Not going to hear me arguing on that score, Merlo!

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

As it was I'd barely reached merry, and then just watched agog as Ando bent the off peg back twice in rapid succession, and any subsequent abuse would have been but churlish.

That doesn't stop us here at Flamingbails...

JKLever wrote:

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

As it was I'd barely reached merry, and then just watched agog as Ando bent the off peg back twice in rapid succession, and any subsequent abuse would have been but churlish.

That doesn't stop us here at Flamingbails...

Keyboard warriors . . . 'nowt worse.