Re: Greatest left hand bat since Sobers - AB or BCL?

by PearlJ Tue 10 Jun 2008, 14:24

Brass Monkey wrote:Viv? Shits all over Border.

Oh yeah?

Border:

Averaged more
Scored more runs
Was a better captain
Faced harder opposition
Was in a worse side

by freddled gruntbuggly Tue 10 Jun 2008, 14:28

PearlJ wrote:
Brass Monkey wrote:Viv? Shits all over Border.
Oh yeah?

Border:

Averaged more
Scored more runs
Was a better captain
Faced harder opposition
Was in a worse side
Was grouser
Was nuggetier

Fixed

by PearlJ Tue 10 Jun 2008, 14:33

freddled gruntbuggly wrote:
PearlJ wrote:
Brass Monkey wrote:Viv? Shits all over Border.
Oh yeah?

Border:

Averaged more
Scored more runs
Was a better captain
Faced harder opposition
Was in a worse side
Was grouser
Was nuggetier
Fixed

They were givens.

by freddled gruntbuggly Tue 10 Jun 2008, 14:38

Some things can't be said too often.

by Brass Monkey Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:04

PearlJ wrote:

Oh yeah?

Border:

1)Averaged more
2)Scored more runs
3)Was a better captain
4)Faced harder opposition
5)Was in a worse side

1) Viv was never about averages. If he looked after his wicket better, he'd have averaged more. Furthermore, only a twat would be pernickety enough to argue over a +0.33 average.

2) Yeah, he played more tests and innings.

3) Debatable to many extents - is there proof, or your opinion?

4) Granted.

5) Granted. Though how this makes him a better batsman, I'm not sure.

by JKLever Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:14

Basically, Aussies are cyclops

That is all.

Viv was king...

by freddled gruntbuggly Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:16

Brass Monkey wrote:
PearlJ wrote:
3)Was a better captain
3) Debatable to many extents - is there proof, or your opinion?

Results, considering opposition and personnel?

by Brass Monkey Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:18

JKLever wrote:Basically, Aussies are

That is all.

Viv was king...

Aww look mite, Viv was alroight bat hoi didn't heve a groiter everige then AB - theere's a deffrence of 0.33, mite. Plas, hoi dedn't score as mach rans in the 35 liss Tists hoi ploiyed.

by JGK Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:18

Brass Monkey wrote:
PearlJ wrote:

Oh yeah?

Border:

1)Averaged more
2)Scored more runs
3)Was a better captain
4)Faced harder opposition
5)Was in a worse side

1) Viv was never about averages. If he looked after his wicket better, he'd have averaged more. Furthermore, only a twat would be pernickety enough to argue over a +0.33 average.

2) Yeah, he played more tests and innings.

3) Debatable to many extents - is there proof, or your opinion?

4) Granted.

5) Granted. Though how this makes him a better batsman, I'm not sure.

Re 3) - I have never seen that Viv was considered to be a good captain whereas Border is revered on this measure.

Obviously Border didn't have Viv's presence, style and flair but he was undoubtedly as effective.

by JKLever Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:21

Pft.

Viv wins more brownie points for scoring his runs whilst not wearing a helmet and chewing gum.

by Invader Zim Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:23

AB was the grumpier.

by Henry Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:24

Viv had the opposition beaten as he strode out to bat, let alone whilst he was batting. He was undoubtedly better than Border. Most Aussies (Apparently apart from the cyclops

's that grace this forum) would agree.

by Brass Monkey Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:26

freddled gruntbuggly wrote:

Results, considering opposition and personnel?

JGK wrote:
Re 3) - I have never seen that Viv was considered to be a good captain whereas Border is revered on this measure.

Obviously Border didn't have Viv's presence, style and flair but he was undoubtedly as effective.

- Border, 93 Matches, 32 Wins. Viv - 50 Matches, 27 wins.

By my calculations that's 50 victories in 93 matches for Viv.

by Lara Lara Laughs Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:27

What was Border's strike rate? I'm guessing around 45? Whereas Viv's would probably be 65-70?

by freddled gruntbuggly Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:29

freddled gruntbuggly wrote:

Results, considering opposition and personnel?

by taipan Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:31

freddled gruntbuggly wrote:
freddled gruntbuggly wrote:

Results, considering opposition and personnel?

Subjective, towards the end of his career AB had pretty good personnel

by Invader Zim Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:31

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:What was Border's strike rate? I'm guessing around 45? Whereas Viv's would probably be 65-70?

Thanks for your contribution.

by Lara Lara Laughs Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:34

Seems like a pretty important point when comparing the two to me. I remember a lot of Aussies arguing that Ponting was a much better bat than Kallis for no other reason than the fact that he scores much more quickly.

by Brass Monkey Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:37

freddled gruntbuggly wrote:
freddled gruntbuggly wrote:

Results, considering opposition and personnel?

Break it down Tails. Because, for quite a while, AB had 'personnel'. The differential is 18 victories. It isn't negligible. Viv had to keep the islands united - a problem that has shown itself since we all took the WI for granted. That's something Border never had to do, even in your xenophobic country.

by Invader Zim Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:38

Seems like a pretty important point when comparing the two to me.

An important point? You made up two stats. How is that adding anything to this 'debate'?

by Brass Monkey Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:40

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Seems like a pretty important point when comparing the two to me. I remember a lot of Aussies arguing that Ponting was a much better bat than Kallis for no other reason than the fact that he scores much more quickly.

They pick and choose ways to denigrate opposition players of a similar standard as they seem fit. This is due to their rampant and humungous predisposition to wank off any Aussie 'idol' and sneeringly disparage any World idol.

by Lara Lara Laughs Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:41

Well, it was a guess. I used question marks which means I was asking if anyone actually knew.

The issue of strike rates is an important point. We all know that Viv scored faster than Border, the question is, how much faster?

by Invader Zim Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:43

We all know that Viv scored faster than Border, the question is, how much faster?

How do we know that if we don't know the strike rates Suspect

by Brass Monkey Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:44

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Well, it was a guess. I used question marks which means I was asking if anyone actually knew.

The issue of strike rates is an important point. We all know that Viv scored faster than Border, the question is, how much faster?

Blame the 'Subis'. They were wank at scoring. Too busy jumping up and down, making racist chants.

by Henry Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:44

Border batted the majority of his career at four, five, and six in what was a struggling team for most of the time. Funny how he's declared the best thing since sliced bread by the Aussies, and yet someone like Chanderpaul (Who has pretty much exactly the same scenario as Border had) is quietly reffered to by the same people as a selfish red ink hunter who should bat up the order.

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