Pakistan vs South Africa Test series in Pakistan

I'd give Boucher slightly more than that , Trev

Good link for Pak fans,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPzjMaDfNQ0

Henry wrote:Boucher will never be considered great. He'll be remembered as a great servant to South African cricket, who was 'solid' with both bat and gloves.

The fact that he will set up records that will probably never be beaten means nothing

embee wrote:I'd give Boucher slightly more than that , Trev

But imo he's only ever been a slightly better than average 'keeper. He's dropped some clangers in his time and he's never had to keep to a truly quality spinner. Batting wise he's made some handy contributions down the order, but I think a Test average of 30 is an underachievement for a guy with his talent and technique.

Henry wrote:

embee wrote:I'd give Boucher slightly more than that , Trev

But imo he's only ever been a slightly better than average 'keeper. He's dropped some clangers in his time and he's never had to keep to a truly quality spinner. Batting wise he's made some handy contributions down the order, but I think a Test average of 30 is an underachievement for a guy with his talent and technique.

Well your opinion has never meant much.

Check out his wicket per innings ratio against people like Knott for instance.

If SA had a world class spinner he would have had the record long ago.

And your opinion is gold dust? If you're measuring the quality of a 'keeper based purely on his stats then you havent got a farking clue. Good fast bowlers get the batsmen to nick the ball a lot, meaning the 'keeper gets more catches. Donald, Pollock, and Ntini have ensured plently of easy chances for Boucher over the years.

Henry wrote:And your opinion is gold dust? If you're measuring the quality of a 'keeper based purely on his stats then you havent got a farking clue. Good fast bowlers get the batsmen to nick the ball a lot, meaning the 'keeper gets more catches. Donald, Pollock, and Ntini have ensured plently of easy chances for Boucher over the years.

Well compared to some of the carp you have posted over the years it is.

Of course the fact that he holds the test record for the most delieveries without conceding a bye makes him an average keeper in your eyes.

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:

embee wrote:I'd give Boucher slightly more than that , Trev

But imo he's only ever been a slightly better than average 'keeper. He's dropped some clangers in his time and he's never had to keep to a truly quality spinner. Batting wise he's made some handy contributions down the order, but I think a Test average of 30 is an underachievement for a guy with his talent and technique.

Well your opinion has never meant much.

Check out his wicket per innings ratio against people like Knott for instance.

If SA had a world class spinner he would have had the record long ago.

Yes, better than Knott but falling short statistically of the true indicator of greatness set by Geraint Jones...

Gary 111 wrote:Yes, better than Knott but falling short statistically of the true indicator of greatness set by Geraint Jones...

GOJ's dismissals to matches ratio is awesome.

Like I said, he's never kept against a quality spinner. It's usually not hard to stop a delivery from a fast bowler from 20 yards behind the wicket, but I do remember on South Africa's tour of England in 2003, he could hardly catch the ball.

He's not a terrible 'keeper, but he's far from being a great one. And there's no way on earth statistics alone can put him ahead of the likes of Knott, Marsh, and Healy.

Henry wrote:Like I said, he's never kept against a quality spinner. It's usually not hard to stop a delivery from a fast bowler from 20 yards behind the wicket, but I do remember on South Africa's tour of England in 2003, he could hardly catch the ball.

He's not a terrible 'keeper, but he's far from being a great one. And there's no way on earth statistics alone can put him ahead of the likes of Knott, Marsh, and Healy.

Yep, he had one bad season in England.

Marsh kept to Lillee and Thompson so why are his stats lower then?

Caught Marsh bowled Lillee is a household phrase in Australia. You just need to have seen Marsh keep to know that he is better than Boucher.

In world cricket at the moment, id place Boucher behind Sangakkara, McCullum, Gilchrist, and probably Dhoni as a 'keeper. Regardless of stats. Mike Atherton has more runs than Don Bradman. Does that make Atherton the better batsman? Going by your theory, it must do.

Henry wrote:Caught Marsh bowled Lillee is a household phrase in Australia. You just need to have seen Marsh keep to know that he is better than Boucher.

In world cricket at the moment, id place Boucher behind Sangakkara, McCullum, Gilchrist, and probably Dhoni as a 'keeper. Regardless of stats. Mike Atherton has more runs than Don Bradman. Does that make Atherton the better batsman? Going by your theory, it must do.

No, you go by the averages, which is exactly what I am doing.

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:Caught Marsh bowled Lillee is a household phrase in Australia. You just need to have seen Marsh keep to know that he is better than Boucher.

In world cricket at the moment, id place Boucher behind Sangakkara, McCullum, Gilchrist, and probably Dhoni as a 'keeper. Regardless of stats. Mike Atherton has more runs than Don Bradman. Does that make Atherton the better batsman? Going by your theory, it must do.

No, you go by the averages, which is wxactly what I am doing.

taips, you would really need to look at the success rate of dismissals to chances to compare the way you are trying to.

Boucher is the best keeper around today. Statistically Gilchrist is and he's not far behind Boucher in the technical stakes.

tac wrote:

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:Caught Marsh bowled Lillee is a household phrase in Australia. You just need to have seen Marsh keep to know that he is better than Boucher.

In world cricket at the moment, id place Boucher behind Sangakkara, McCullum, Gilchrist, and probably Dhoni as a 'keeper. Regardless of stats. Mike Atherton has more runs than Don Bradman. Does that make Atherton the better batsman? Going by your theory, it must do.

No, you go by the averages, which is wxactly what I am doing.

taips, you would really need to look at the success rate of dismissals to chances to compare the way you are trying to.

Not quite with you there tac.

taipan wrote:

tac wrote:

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:Caught Marsh bowled Lillee is a household phrase in Australia. You just need to have seen Marsh keep to know that he is better than Boucher.

In world cricket at the moment, id place Boucher behind Sangakkara, McCullum, Gilchrist, and probably Dhoni as a 'keeper. Regardless of stats. Mike Atherton has more runs than Don Bradman. Does that make Atherton the better batsman? Going by your theory, it must do.

No, you go by the averages, which is wxactly what I am doing.

taips, you would really need to look at the success rate of dismissals to chances to compare the way you are trying to.

Not quite with you there tac.

I've only skimmed through this because reading Henry's crap usually makes me sick, but you seem to be comparing keepers on wickets per match. Yes?

tac wrote:

taipan wrote:

tac wrote:

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:Caught Marsh bowled Lillee is a household phrase in Australia. You just need to have seen Marsh keep to know that he is better than Boucher.

In world cricket at the moment, id place Boucher behind Sangakkara, McCullum, Gilchrist, and probably Dhoni as a 'keeper. Regardless of stats. Mike Atherton has more runs than Don Bradman. Does that make Atherton the better batsman? Going by your theory, it must do.

No, you go by the averages, which is wxactly what I am doing.

taips, you would really need to look at the success rate of dismissals to chances to compare the way you are trying to.

Not quite with you there tac.

I've only skimmed through this because reading Henry's crap usually makes me sick, but you seem to be comparing keepers on wickets per match. Yes?

Basically, yes.

Urgh....He's saying that you need to find out how many catches Boucher has dropped compared to how many he has caught to get a truer reflection of how good he is.

I think that the only fair way to compare apples with apples is to look at the 'keepers success rate. How many catches do they take as a percentage of chances offered by batsmen.

tac wrote:I think that the only fair way to compare apples with apples is to look at the 'keepers success rate. How many catches do they take as a percentage of chances offered by batsmen.

Unfortunately no-one keeps records of dropped chances, allowing the myth that Knott / Evans / Oldfield (insert old keepers name here) never dropped a catch in their life and any modern keeper isn't fit to lace their boots.

That myth seems to have been attached to Chris Read as well, Gary.

Word. What I do know is Gilly should have the best ratio. Too many great bowlers providing too many chances. Stats say 4.21 dismissals per match compared to 3.9 for Boucher.

Henry wrote:That myth seems to have been attached to Chris Read as well, Gary.

Well he is the best keeper around in the international game at the moment. But we have howls of protest everytime he fails with the bat (and even recently when he succeeds with it) so instead we get to watch some bald bloke keeping like coco the clown.

At the very least he should be forced to wear a big curly green wig, size 20 shoes and have a big red nose to make the spectacle complete.

Batfink Begins wrote:Word. What I do know is Gilly should have the best ratio. Too many great bowlers providing too many chances. Stats say 4.21 dismissals per match compared to 3.9 for Boucher.

Gilchrist is a better keeper than many give him credit. Struggling to find a better one currently in international cricket at the moment.