West Indies v England, 4th Test, Bridgetown - Feb 26-Mar 2

JKLever wrote:

Basil wrote:I'm beginning to think that Sibo is a throwback to the "English conditions only" generation of bowlers like Geoff Arnold, Mike Hendrick etc, i.e. bugger all to offer when the ball doesn't swing or jag around off the seam.

Had to pop out during most of our bowling - what speeds was he flinging them down at?

83-85 mph - down on what he was achieving in his purple patch.

Our best chance of getting wickets will be from Broad and Anderson with reverse swing from the old ball.

JKLever wrote:You wait and see, we'll do these no problem.

And Gussie, cut that depressing stuff out - Beefy has assured us we'll win the Ashes. Nothing can go wrong.

I would love to cut the depressing stuff out but, to lose to a West Indies side which, whilst improving, is undoubtedly among the lesser rather than the better sides in world cricket, would be another unmitigated disaster for English cricket and one which you would expect, as a rational man, to see leading to sackings en masse both in terms of playing personnel and coaching personnel. Because it really isn't good enough to look so rubbish in a series of great importance. We really needed to go out there and play some good cricket in this one. Yet we've only done so when batting on two of the flattest pitches the world has ever seen. For some reason we cannot produce bowlers of any quality whatsoever and this needs to be scrutinised with an ever vigilant eye, 'cause something's seriously wrong out there. It's not good at all, and part of me thinks it's less about talent and more about the idiots coaching these kids. When Liam Plunkett is still procrastinating halfway down his run-up about his action five years after the ****** event, I want to know why. If kids can't find themselves with a settled action in their early to mid-20s then they're ******.

Re: SiBo. The speed gun was saying 83mph but he didn't look half as fast as Jimmy who was supposedly pinging it down at the same or similar...

There seems to be some undue pessimism here. Need I remind you that England took 19 wickets for 655 in the very last match?

I must take issue with Augustus saying Sarwan is no Ponting and England haven't even tried to get him out.

Sarwan is actually an exceptionally talented batsman who has underachieved massively until the home series last season. He has all the shots, he is an awesome player of spin (better than Ponting in that regard tbh). At aged 28, I believe he is coming into his own and I can see him averaging in the mid 40's before very long.

There are some very good batsmen playing in this series and yet he has been head and shoulders above everyone in terms of run production and also the class he has shown all around the wicket.

Admittedly he is my 3rd favourite Windies batsman to watch (after Dwayne and Daren Bravo) and so I am biased, but there is no shame in struggling to get Sarwan out.

Ponting is an all-time great batsmen, Sarwan is the typical 'underachiever.' He has class but all he ever does is bully teams on his home tracks. Crap in NZ, good in WI. He'll never change.

A lovely batsmen to watch, I rate him highly, but he'll never be anything more than that. To even put him in the same sentence let alone on the same playing field as Punter is an insult to one of the great bats of our time.

I was simply saying that if you can't get Sarwan out you cannot hope to get the better batsmen out. But if you want to say there are no better batsmen then we'll stop there and agree that you're a little bit mad.

I have watched Sarwan since he was 18 years old and he has always had the talent to be up there with the very best. Indeed Ted Dexter saw him during his test debut and said 'this man will average 60 in test cricket'.

He is currently 28 and is in the form of his life. POonting got his average up from the 40's when he was in his mid 20's to the late 50's. I am not saying Sarwan will do that but he is a class batsman and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up doing a Shiv and drives up his average to 50.

As for him being a home bully, it is one of his flaws but he has also played extremely well in SA and even in England. In NZ he was not himself and was getting out playing aggressive shots too early in his innings.

IMHO he is ready to dominate now.

And yes I am a little bit mad

WIFAN wrote:I must take issue with Augustus saying Sarwan is no Ponting

Forum gold right there...

For every 18 year old future Test batsmen there's some numpty saying he's going to be the best ever. See Ian Bell. Fact of the matter is the 'form of his life' comes after having his technique comprehensively dismantled by a poor NZ side in helpful conditions. No surprise that now he's back home he's comfortable against one of the worst attacks in world cricket. Fair play to him for capitalising though.

Augustus wrote:For every 18 year old future Test batsmen there's some numpty saying he's going to be the best ever. See Ian Bell. Fact of the matter is the 'form of his life' comes after having his technique comprehensively dismantled by a poor NZ side in helpful conditions. No surprise that now he's back home he's comfortable against one of the worst attacks in world cricket. Fair play to him for capitalising though.

I take it you didn't see that tour then? Sarwan was out trying to cut and drive the ball too early in his innings. It was not as if he was lbw playing across the line or caught at slip from outswingers.

Anyway clearly I rate him more highly than you do. What cannot be argued is that he has been the best batsman from either side in this series.

And JKLever you are taking liberties with the truth and making me look bad by selectively quoting my post. Do you work for the media by any chance

Sarwan still gets out to poor shots at the wrong time.

Still hasn't matured.

Paul Keating wrote:Sarwan still gets out to poor shots at the wrong time.

Still hasn't matured.

347 runs @ 115.66 is not bad for someone who hasn't matured.

WIFAN wrote:

Augustus wrote:For every 18 year old future Test batsmen there's some numpty saying he's going to be the best ever. See Ian Bell. Fact of the matter is the 'form of his life' comes after having his technique comprehensively dismantled by a poor NZ side in helpful conditions. No surprise that now he's back home he's comfortable against one of the worst attacks in world cricket. Fair play to him for capitalising though.

I take it you didn't see that tour then? Sarwan was out trying to cut and drive the ball too early in his innings.

Ah, excuse me, I forgot those types of dismissal didn't count any more. I distinctly remember him being caught behind twice, though.

Edit: Further research confirms my thoughts; three innings in NZ, twice caught behind, one lbw to the bespectacled one. Clearly, WIFAN has created a fantasy world in which Sarwan got dismissed playing orgasmic cuts that unfortunately found their way caught by a diving backward point who suddenly grew a third arm to snatch the ball out of the air even though it was at least ten feet away from him.

Trying to drive the ball early in one's innings, of course, is a common failure in rubbish batsmen. Hence why caught behind is a common method of dismissal and the slip corden has a number of fielders disproportionate to the actual size of the position.

Yes, cutting at a ball too close to him from an off spinner.

You said he had his technique dismantled. The reality is he was in a bad frame of mind due to a bust up he had with the captain and the selectors and was not in the right frame of mind to perform at his best. He is an exceptional cutter of the ball, are you suggesting that he has a technical weakness with that shot that NZ dismantled?

Clearly they have worked out their differences and he is performing magnificently.

I suppose he also had a bust-up on the tours of Australia, England, and on the previous tour of NZ? The last time he was in a good frame of mind in an away Test was, of course, in 2004...

LOL Forum gold.

So WIFAN, has Sarwan eradicated the pull/hook shot? How many times did he get out to that earlier in his career?

And does he still get out to it?

Nope, I said he could have performed better on a number of tours, that is why he only averages 41, when it should be a heck of a lot better.

Shiv used to have a poor overseas record. But guess what age he suddenly put it together to become the World number 1 test batsman over the last 2 years? Aged 28.

R.E the hook shot he still gets out from time to time in ODI's with it, but he has become a much less compulsive hooker over the last 3 years.

Augustus wrote: For some reason we cannot produce bowlers of any quality whatsoever and this needs to be scrutinised with an ever vigilant eye, 'cause something's seriously wrong out there. It's not good at all, and part of me thinks it's less about talent and more about the idiots coaching these kids. When Liam Plunkett is still procrastinating halfway down his run-up about his action five years after the ****** event, I want to know why. If kids can't find themselves with a settled action in their early to mid-20s then they're ******.

http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/england/england-lions/nzc-ep-v-eng,304284,EN.html

"Plunkett and Mahmood impress"

I really hope Kevin Shine isn't still fiddling with Plunkett's action. He's all but destroyed him. And for what? The remodeled action is supposed to prevent injuries, but he's missed shit-loads of cricket in the last couple of years. And ended up with a crappy action into the bargain. Thanks Shiner.

Leave him alone, let him work it out for himself. He's got natural pace and late swing. Should be far more developed as a bowler by now than he is.

Just like to add that the NZ "Emerging Players" featured 33 year-old, Scott Styris - who has appeared for NZ 200 times. I wonder when he'll graduate to being just a "player"...

-- and in other English bowlers who haven't developed at all news, David Stiff has got a gig at Somerset. 6' 6" and 90mph - he should be a f*cking beast. But he not...

http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/domestic/counties/somerset/stiff-test-at-somerset,304292,EN.html

Apparently recommended to Langer by Andre Bichelle who has been working with Stiffler out in Ozland as he been playing grade cricket.

zzzzzzzzzzzzz. this seems to be going the karachi way. what a road

The One wrote:zzzzzzzzzzzzz. this seems to be going the karachi way. what a road

Didn't hear you whinging when Sehwag was knocking up runs on a highway v the saffies . . . .

Apparently recommended to Langer by Andre Bichelle who has been working with Stiffler out in Ozland as he been playing grade cricket.

What do Italian tenors know about cricket?

Well played Brapi. Scrappy Brapi Boo. Nice maiden century on a flat deck against a depleted bowling attack. Well played sir. Not sure about the Celebration, seems a bit gay and OTT for my liking.


It'll be interesting to see how he goes against other attacks in world Cricket. I don't think Daren Powell and Nash Potatoe dibbly dobbley accounts for a hill of beans in this crazy Test Scene.


I'm not convinced that he's the real deal. He's like another incarnation of Ambrose. Only good against the WI or NZ. Watch those two get unstuck come July.

Strauss played lovely. I can say that because the man has played against some of the best bowlers in the World.

tac wrote:

The One wrote:zzzzzzzzzzzzz. this seems to be going the karachi way. what a road

Didn't hear you whinging when Sehwag was knocking up runs on a highway v the saffies . . . .

probably because i didnt see that match

though a sehwag triple in less than 300 deliveries cant be as boring as this

Scoring rates are high in this game, nothing like Karachi really.

Remains to be seen if the pitch is like this all game too...

lanka scored at well over 4 an over in both innings, higher than what either team in this match has achieved. the paksters relatively took their time, still over 3 an over

As I said r/r here are around 4rpo, we'll probably know if its another Karachi after todays play.