Re: The UK General Election Thread

[Basil]

Lib Dems actually coming out in front in some of them, but they would probably need high 30's before they could even think about being the largest party never mind a majority... Labour could easily finish third in percentage terms but have the most seats.

Then we can kiss goodbye to first-past-the-post in any subsequesnt general election.

I don't get this 'first past the post' scenario, sounds like something Zardari of Pakistan would encourage to remain in power till death, how has the UK allowed it for so long?

Because the anomaly of a party polling fewer votes but gaining more seats than its rivals is a rarity. It makes the democratic process a farce if that scenario comes to pass.

[beamer]

I guess the advantage of it is that it produces stable majority governments most of the time and gives everyone their own MP - does tend to exclude smaller parties though, and in a three-way split obviously has the potential to produce some anomalies.

[Basil]

I guess the advantage of it is that it produces stable majority governments most of the time and gives everyone their own MP - does tend to exclude smaller parties though, and in a three-way split obviously has the potential to produce some anomalies.

Germany has manged quite nicely without majority governments.

[Allan D]

New ComRes poll due out at 10pm rumoured to give Tories 9-point lead over both Labour + Lib Dems (35-26-26). It ain't over till it's over.

[Guest]

New ComRes poll due out at 10pm rumoured to give Tories 9-point lead over both Labour + Lib Dems (35-26-26). It ain't over till it's over.

The Tories are going to walk this election, I don't know what you were ever panicking about.

[beamer]

Rumours of both that and the same in favour of the Lib Dems are flying around, will know shortly which (if either) it is...

[Basil]

New ComRes poll due out at 10pm rumoured to give Tories 9-point lead over both Labour + Lib Dems (35-26-26). It ain't over till it's over.

The Tories are going to walk this election, I don't know what you were ever panicking about.

That would still put the Tories 27 shy of an overall majority on the basis of a uniform swing (which we know won't happen)

[Zat]

Sorry to spoil a good story with the facts but McCain, who had trailed Obama in the polls upto that point, actually went ahead after he picked Palin. It was only the banking collapse in September that caused Obama to surge again.

Nothing to do with McCain being as likeable as tinea of the groin, and Palin being a nutter? OK, sure...

[Allan D]

Another example of Lib Dem consistency:

The Liberal Democrat leader, who was criticised by David Cameron for his "holier-than-thou" attitude in the first of the televised leaders' debates, has written an article for The Church of England Newspaper in which he claims that Christian values are "central" to his policies....

Curiously, he could not find space anywhere in the article to mention that he does not believe in God.

Atheist Nick Clegg discovers religion in time for polling day

[JKLever]

New ComRes poll due out at 10pm rumoured to give Tories 9-point lead over both Labour + Lib Dems (35-26-26). It ain't over till it's over.

That's only 1 of 4 polls out tonight - the others...

Populous CON 32 LAB 28 LIB 31

Angus Reid CON 32 LAB 23 LIB 33

Yougov CON 31 LAB 26 LIB 34

More significantly all those 3 polls were taken yesterday and today and that ComRes poll is a day older and given the others are more or less are within the margin of each other, i'd put that Tory 9 point lead down as a rogue poll.

[Bradman]

Another example of Lib Dem consistency:

The Liberal Democrat leader, who was criticised by David Cameron for his "holier-than-thou" attitude in the first of the televised leaders' debates, has written an article for The Church of England Newspaper in which he claims that Christian values are "central" to his policies....

Curiously, he could not find space anywhere in the article to mention that he does not believe in God.

Atheist Nick Clegg discovers religion in time for polling day

To be fair you can live your life by Christian principles without actually believing in God. As embodied in the Ten Commandents, what's wrong with not 1)killing people, 2)cheating on your wife, 3) stealing.

[Allan D]

Nothing at all except the Decalogue occurs in the Old Testament as part of the Mosaic Law and therefore precedes Christ but what about:

Believing in God (1st Commandment)?
Believing in no other gods (2nd Commandment)?
Not committing blasphemy (4th Commandment)?
Keeping the Sabbath Day holy (5th Commandment)?

Religion is not like the Liberal Democrat manifesto where you can pick and choose what pleases you and discard the rest.

How about obeying the specifically Christian commandment:

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal

Gospel According to St Matthew, Chap.6, v.13.

MPs' expenses: Nick Clegg defends £84,000 expenses on 'modest' second home

[horace]

time the brits had a cultural revolution and these crooks were put out into the rice fields and coal mines ...erm ...don't know where I got the rice fields bit.

[Zat]

Because the Chinese have bought half of Britain, just like they have the rest of the world?

[Guest]

I'm an atheist but live by many Christian principles, my Mum is one and brought me up as one. I think that the whole God thing is clearly nonsense as there is just as much chance of a giant penguin having created the world, but the values instilled in me from a Christian upbringing are generally good I would say.

If that was the point that Clegg was trying to make then I see nothing wrong with it.

[Allan D]

The main Christian principle (and I come at this from an agnostic point of view) is that Christ is the Son of God and offers eternal salvation. All the other principles such as loving your neighbour, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you (the Golden Rule) and taking care of the poor and the vulnerable stem from this basic premise.

You may have principles that coincide with Christianity but which may be derived from humanism or utilitarianism or Platonism or some other secular philosophy. Indeed there are many principles, the Golden Rule for one, which are not specific to Christianity but occur in almost every major religion as well as ancient Greek philosophy.

It is rather like the political parties who all believe that we should have full employment with stable prices, long-term economic growth and well-resourced and efficiently-run public services. The problem is how do you arrive at that point. I remember in the last election when Michael Howard and the Conservatives campaigned on an election pledge of "cleaner hospitals" I began to wonder which political party was running on a programme of dirtier hospitals.

There are also two common heresies which are still widely believed today which put you firmly outside the bounds of the Christian faith - one is the Pelagian heresy, which St Augustine was particularly strong in denouncing, named after a British writer named Pelagius who believed that salvation could be achieved through good works. Augustine pointed out that salvation could only be achieved by faith. Christ had, after all, redeemed the thieves on the Cross who had done no good works simply for believing in him.

The other heresy is the Arian heresy where you believe that Jesus Christ was a wise and spiritual teacher but not the Son of God. This doctrine has had many adherents including writers such as George Bernard Shaw but again even if you believe that what Christ said was true if you do not believe he was divine you cannot be a Christian.

These doctrinal nuances evidently do not seem to bother the Church of England but then they never have. Non-believers as well as believers are equally welcome among its communicants as well as, it seems, the contributors to its journals. I notice that Clegg states that those who support abortion, as he does, and those who totally oppose it, and those who support stem-cell research as well as those who oppose it, are equally welcome within the Liberal Democrats (making the party comparable to the Church of England) but he does not explain how such ethical conflicts are to be resolved when it comes to forming public policy.

Does the Sixth Commandment apply to abortion and, if not, what excludes it? I would be interested to know Mr Clegg's response on this but I won't hold my breath.

[Chivalry Augustus]

THIS FORUM IS DEAD.

[JKLever]

Yup, 42 pages of discussion Gus. Dead.

[Guest]

It wouldn't be a month at FB without at least one psychological meltdown.

[JKLever]

Couple more polls...

MORI CON 32%(-3), LAB 28%(-2), LDEM 32%(+11)
HARRIS CON 31%(-5), LAB 26%(-1), LDEM 30%(+7)

Are we really going to have a tree hugging nuke disarming sandal wearing pinko government?

[Guest]

Couple more polls...

MORI CON 32%(-3), LAB 28%(-2), LDEM 32%(+11)
HARRIS CON 31%(-5), LAB 26%(-1), LDEM 30%(+7)

Are we really going to have a tree hugging nuke disarming sandal wearing pinko government?

Nah. I can't believe some bookies have Lib Dems as short as 8-1 to get the most seats.

[LeFromage]

Couple more polls...

MORI CON 32%(-3), LAB 28%(-2), LDEM 32%(+11)
HARRIS CON 31%(-5), LAB 26%(-1), LDEM 30%(+7)

Are we really going to have a tree hugging nuke disarming sandal wearing pinko government?

Don't be so tree-ist.

The trees are our friends.

I would've thought you'd be bang up for any party that were into hugging, anyway.

[Guest]

[JKLever]

Now now there's a difference between being huggable and being up for a good hugging.

[LeFromage]

You just can't handle the thought that someone other than you might be the go-to hugger in this country.

[Sponsored content]