Is Ryan Sidebottom better than Jesus?

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about, but I can assure I am always fastidious in my reading of thread titles so as not to be caught looking like some kind of dim-witted pillock. No editing occurred.

Also, if Jesus had been into that kind of thing, we'd have to concede he probably edges it over our Ryan. As it is, the jury's out until Sidebo takes a ten-fer against the Aussies at Lords next year.

Cor, the Ashes aren't that far away are they? Just over a year. When do tickets go on sale? Does anybody know?

Jesus had a better hairstyle.

I do hope that he and his junior assistant destroyer do well in the last test, but only for the amusement of seeing "Broad" and "Sidebottom" alternating all the way down the scorecard.

eowyn wrote:Check out the new website.

Link


It's got the Kaiser Cheifs for background music! And Mynahs in miners helmets for some bizarre reason.

Is one not a member eowyn? Everything you needed to know about the Mynahs was in the pre-season membership info sent to all the members.

Whisper it quietly but I think Molly is rather cute, nice legs n'that. I do hope she's over 16, eek! ...

http://mynahs.yorkshireccc.com/intro/index

Seen my Mitchell and Webb thread Geoffrey? I think you'd appreciate it given that you're northern and a footy and cricket fan. Get youtrself down rthere for some japes ans chuckles.

Geoffrey Trueman wrote:

eowyn wrote:Check out the new website.

Link


It's got the Kaiser Cheifs for background music! And Mynahs in miners helmets for some bizarre reason.

Is one not a member eowyn? Everything you needed to know about the Mynahs was in the pre-season membership info sent to all the members.

Whisper it quietly but I think Molly is rather cute, nice legs n'that. I do hope she's over 16, eek! ...

http://mynahs.yorkshireccc.com/intro/index

I know what the Mynahs are, I was trying to drum up interest by being obscure........

I think Molly is underage, you need to do pennance, quickly.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:The Indian and Sri Lanka series' are misleading. He had 8 catches dropped vs Sri Lanka (mainly by Prior) and 2 against India. Without those drops:

vs India - 10 wickets at 30.3

vs Sri Lanka - 13 wickets at 24


His overall record without those drops would be 55 wickets at 23 in 12 Tests. That's phenomenal. What a class act. That's why he's better than Jesus.

That's a pretty warped and distorted use of statistics. Don't get me wrong on this. One can argue that if Parthiv Patel wasn't so crap with his catching, India would have won both Border Gavaskar Trophies against Aus in 2004. Unfortunately thats not how the statistics show things. We need to avoid using such excuses. It just sounds lame.....

eowyn wrote:I know what the Mynahs are, I was trying to drum up interest by being obscure........

I think Molly is underage, you need to do pennance, quickly.

I thought as much. I just needed a tenuous link to let the world know of my love for sexy cartoon animals.

As a penance I'm torn between a few 'Hail Marys' and beating myself with birch twigs.

Re: Mitchell and Webb. Sorry Lara, but I'm not a fan. I'm more of a Benny Hill/Tommy Cooper man.

Sidebottom took stacks of wickets in the CC for a couple of years, but good old, 'F*ck of county cricket' Fletcher ignored him based on the fact that he didn't really like what he saw in Sidebottom's first test match back in 2001. Criminal really. Best left arm quickie England have had for a while imo, and he certainly can't be accused of lacking character.

Geoffrey Trueman wrote:

eowyn wrote:I know what the Mynahs are, I was trying to drum up interest by being obscure........

I think Molly is underage, you need to do pennance, quickly.

I thought as much. I just needed a tenuous link to let the world know of my love for sexy cartoon animals.

As a penance I'm torn between a few 'Hail Marys' and beating myself with birch twigs.

Re: Mitchell and Webb. Sorry Lara, but I'm not a fan. I'm more of a Benny Hill/Tommy Cooper man.

Not Roy 'Chubby' Brown GT?

Ye Gods, no eowyn. Playing up to the stereotype is one thing, but saying I like Chubby Brown is a step too far.

Btw, I went for the birch twigs, and very nice it was too.

Geoffrey Trueman wrote:Ye Gods, no eowyn. Playing up to the stereotype is one thing, but saying I like Chubby Brown is a step too far.

Btw, I went for the birch twigs, and very nice it was too.

I apologise.

Glad you enjoyed the birching.

Henry wrote:Sidebottom took stacks of wickets in the CC for a couple of years, but good old, 'F*ck of county cricket' Fletcher ignored him based on the fact that he didn't really like what he saw in Sidebottom's first test match back in 2001. Criminal really. Best left arm quickie England have had for a while imo, and he certainly can't be accused of lacking character.

Fletch had a point. Sidebottom was bowling at 80mph if that in County Cricket. Enough to trouble non-international batsmen if you can swing the ball with accuracy but not good enough for the top table. When he got his second chance Sidebottom found 5+ mph extra on every delivery. If I was Nottinghamshire or Yorkshire CCC I'd want to know why...

THICKEDGE wrote:When he got his second chance Sidebottom found 5+ mph extra on every delivery. If I was Nottinghamshire or Yorkshire CCC I'd want to know why...

I suspect Yorkshire knew he was 'tossing it off', that's why they binned him. Whatever the reason I was sad to see him go.

Batman wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:The Indian and Sri Lanka series' are misleading. He had 8 catches dropped vs Sri Lanka (mainly by Prior) and 2 against India. Without those drops:

vs India - 10 wickets at 30.3

vs Sri Lanka - 13 wickets at 24


His overall record without those drops would be 55 wickets at 23 in 12 Tests. That's phenomenal. What a class act. That's why he's better than Jesus.

That's a pretty warped and distorted use of statistics. Don't get me wrong on this. One can argue that if Parthiv Patel wasn't so crap with his catching, India would have won both Border Gavaskar Trophies against Aus in 2004. Unfortunately thats not how the statistics show things. We need to avoid using such excuses. It just sounds lame.....

Err no. Not really. Not really at all. It's highly unusual for a bowler to have 10 catches dropped off their bowling in just 10 Tests. It's highly unusual for a wicket keeper to be quite that sh*t. It's perfectly reasonable to point out that if the wicket keeper hadn't been quite so shit, his bowling record would be a hell of a lot better.

Sidebottom was another victim of Fletcher and Graveney's "85mph+ club". He's been robbed of some of the best years of his career by ignorant selectors but is making up for it now.

Maybe he's a lesson to Enghland's selectors- a hardened quick bowler who's been slugging it out on the county circuit honing his skills and gaining experience so that he's actually READY when he receives an England call up, rather than being another shy, timid little kid who has no idea where the next ball is going but has been selected because he has decent pace.

Of course anyone would think that Fletcher/Hussain/Vaughan hadn't lifted England from rock bottom to do the unthinkable in 2005 with a good but not great set of players...

Always remember Nasser saying that Englands attack struggled to compete on pitches that didn't offer anything to the bowlers. I think we were spot on to look for pace bowlers.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:

Batman wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:The Indian and Sri Lanka series' are misleading. He had 8 catches dropped vs Sri Lanka (mainly by Prior) and 2 against India. Without those drops:

vs India - 10 wickets at 30.3

vs Sri Lanka - 13 wickets at 24


His overall record without those drops would be 55 wickets at 23 in 12 Tests. That's phenomenal. What a class act. That's why he's better than Jesus.

That's a pretty warped and distorted use of statistics. Don't get me wrong on this. One can argue that if Parthiv Patel wasn't so crap with his catching, India would have won both Border Gavaskar Trophies against Aus in 2004. Unfortunately thats not how the statistics show things. We need to avoid using such excuses. It just sounds lame.....

Err no. Not really. Not really at all. It's highly unusual for a bowler to have 10 catches dropped off their bowling in just 10 Tests. It's highly unusual for a wicket keeper to be quite that sh*t. It's perfectly reasonable to point out that if the wicket keeper hadn't been quite so shit, his bowling record would be a hell of a lot better.

There's a balance to be found somewhere between the two extremes, I feel. Every bowler has had catches dropped off them, and thus, their averages have suffered. Sidebottom, unfortunately, has been the victim of a freakish situation, but to imagine one in which he hasn't had a single catch dropped is a little unfair on every other bowler he is competing with too. His average ought to be around 26 at the minute rather than 29, which would be an accurate reflection of his ability, his work-rate, and his importance to the team.

He deserves considerable credit, and I don't think we need corrected averages to tell us that he has been absolutely superb in just about every Test, ODI and Twenty20 he has played so far. If we had another two Sidebottoms in our team, we'd have a brilliant seam attack.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:

Batman wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:The Indian and Sri Lanka series' are misleading. He had 8 catches dropped vs Sri Lanka (mainly by Prior) and 2 against India. Without those drops:

vs India - 10 wickets at 30.3

vs Sri Lanka - 13 wickets at 24


His overall record without those drops would be 55 wickets at 23 in 12 Tests. That's phenomenal. What a class act. That's why he's better than Jesus.

That's a pretty warped and distorted use of statistics. Don't get me wrong on this. One can argue that if Parthiv Patel wasn't so crap with his catching, India would have won both Border Gavaskar Trophies against Aus in 2004. Unfortunately thats not how the statistics show things. We need to avoid using such excuses. It just sounds lame.....

Err no. Not really. Not really at all. It's highly unusual for a bowler to have 10 catches dropped off their bowling in just 10 Tests. It's highly unusual for a wicket keeper to be quite that sh*t. It's perfectly reasonable to point out that if the wicket keeper hadn't been quite so shit, his bowling record would be a hell of a lot better.

And if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

Why not throw in the close LBW calls, the plays-and-misses - and be sure to delete the wickets where the umpire shouldn't have given the batsman out.

Yes, he's had some misfortune - and that's why statistics don't tend to tell the whole story - but you could say that about any bowler. If Jimmy Anderson hadn't bowled such shite for the majority of his career, he'd have 180 wickets @ 23.

gh05 wrote:Sidebottom was another victim of Fletcher and Graveney's "85mph+ club". He's been robbed of some of the best years of his career by ignorant selectors but is making up for it now.

Or it forced him to earn his stripes in county cricket, develop his all-round bowling skills and find a little bit of extra pace.

He can bowl at up to 88mph these days when he's firing. Never used to be that fast. Allan Donald really drummed it into him that he had to hit the pitch harder and he hasn't looked back.

Far from being a victim, he's something of a convert to Fletcher's ideal. And it's to his and England's benefit.

Rubbish, rubbish and thrice rubbish. Don't bring some extreme examples and present them as analogues. With a decent keeper in the side, those chances wouldn't have been dropped. He's been extraordinarily unlucky. That's not comparable to Anderson bowling rubbish for most of his Test career. If you're trying to say it is, you've gone nutty. Nutty like a particularly nutty cake. It doesn't hurt to point out that he's bowled a lot better than his figures suggest and that he could (not should) be averaging 6 runs less and have 10 more wickets.

I agree with most of Augustus's post.

I was preaching for Sid's inclusion in the England setup, ages and ages and ages ago on the old Channel 4 forum.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Rubbish, rubbish and thrice rubbish. Don't bring some extreme examples and present them as analogues. With a decent keeper in the side, those chances wouldn't have been dropped. He's been extraordinarily unlucky. That's not comparable to Anderson bowling rubbish for most of his Test career. If you're trying to say it is, you've gone nutty. Nutty like a particularly nutty cake. It doesn't hurt to point out that he's bowled a lot better than his figures suggest and that he could (not should) be averaging 6 runs less and have 10 more wickets.

I agree with most of Augustus's post.

So no other bowler has ever had catches dropped?

Why don't you do the research for all of England's seamers of recent times, tally up all the drops and umpiring gaffes they've had to endure and report on their 'new' bowling averages?

Then you can compare how "phenomenal" they all are in Pretendland.

i THINK Lara is thinking of the recent present, because in all fairness Sid has had alot of badluck with umps and drops. I'd say Sid was equally as unlucky as Stuart Clark.