Re: English Domestic Season (2014)

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 May 2014, 12:01

Dello wrote:Match figures of 9/155 for Kent's Adam Riley. An actual English spinner.

Don't know owt about him, but Nick Cook (while bemoaning the overall state of England's spin options) name checked him once. In a positive way, I think.

About three days ago. On Cricinfo.

by lardbucket Wed 07 May 2014, 12:07

Well, I guess that proves that Trev isn't Nick Cook. Not sure what else!

by beamer Wed 07 May 2014, 12:14

Brass Monkey wrote:I'm not sure how anyone can assess Michael Carberry based on 5 Tests against a completely rampant Aussie bowling line-up, high on the most aggressive twattery going, the media acting like absolute qunts, the Aus support staff acting like qunts.

Since when is that a fair representation of his possible skills? He toughed it out a helluva lot more than most of the trannys in the side.

Some bullshit about 'investment' did I hear? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yessssssss. Of course all of the incumbents MUST have a 75-100 Test career - they just MUST.

I mean, look at Aus and Chris Rogers - young 'buck'.

All of 7 years old.

He'll play a couple of hundred Tests.

Invest in him.

Because the future is where it's at.

Not the present.

What I'd like to see is some teenager be given a go, like Aus have done with Rogers.

He may not come good for 50 Tests, but at least he'll have a lengthy career.

Aus are very, very lucky the gamble with Chrissy Rogers paid off - it's a risky business.

If they got rid of him now, with a creditable fight in this country and being influential in two very good series wins in Aus and SA then what would he have? Two series victories and 14 Tests.

Meh.

Not worth bothering, really.

What I've said is that as an older player coming in you have to hit the ground running. Not average less than your age and expect another chance. If Carberry and Compton are the best options we've got, we can acquaint ourselves with that number 8 ranking for a long, long time to come.

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 May 2014, 12:21

You're right. I mean, it's not like he was thrown in at the deep end. He was eased in with easy Tests against Bangladesh. My sarcastic point is that, there has to be some weighting against who he played against. He won't have as hard a time as that until we play Australia again. By which time he could be comfortable enough in his position. I wouldn't call 5 away Tests, amidst the biggest clusterf*ck we've seen EVER, is a good representation of 'a chance'.

by beamer Wed 07 May 2014, 13:43

Well, maybe that's fair enough... I'd still rather cut as many ties with that tour as possible, for better or worse. I know it's easier to scapegoat the less established players, but as I suppose we've lost at least three senior players the remaining ones are probably untouchable for now. So it's the likes of Carberry who were perhaps in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's perhaps harsh but I'd rather move on and see if we can find someone who could be really good rather than someone who could be just OK.

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 May 2014, 13:59

OK, let's scapegoat Joe Root. He's not fit now and he was complete bullshit on the tour, from start to finish. I thought we had a player there who wouldn't be another Cook/Bell where they flatter to deceive for a lot of their career only to actually produce for a short period of time then regress to utter shit. I'm done with such investments.

by Merlin Wed 07 May 2014, 14:12

Brass Monkey wrote:I'm not sure how anyone can assess Michael Carberry based on 5 Tests against a completely rampant Aussie bowling line-up, high on the most aggressive twattery going, the media acting like absolute qunts, the Aus support staff acting like qunts.

Word.
My sentiments exactly.

beamer wrote: What I've said is that as an older player coming in you have to hit the ground running. Not average less than your age and expect another chance. If Carberry and Compton are the best options we've got, we can acquaint ourselves with that number 8 ranking for a long, long time to come.

Judged on what basis?
Heresay?
Media?
Because they're both over 30 years of age?
They both speak their minds?

Pray enlighten us!

by beamer Wed 07 May 2014, 14:19

This little thing called "batting average" that some obscure statistician has invented recently. Mr Duckworth or Mr Lewis perhaps. Apparently just above 30 is pretty shit, 40 plus is reasonable, 50 is legend status and 99.94... well, that's just silly, surely nobody ever did that, the scorers must have been on drugs...

I think some of the sympathy towards them is because they have spoken out, seemingly been poorly treated and aren't establishment chosen ones. But that doesn't mean they would suddenly turn into world-beaters.

by Merlin Wed 07 May 2014, 16:38

According to your mr Duckworth and Mr Lewis . . .

Compton in Tests - played 9 - avge 31.93 top score 117
Carberry in tests - played 6 - avge 28.75 top score 60.

Wow - determination that they're "just not world beaters" after just 9 and 6 tests respectively!

Nice one beams ol' son. . . . kick 'em out before they get a sniff of stringing a few tests together (espesh against popgun attacks on flatties which only serve to inflate those 40+ averages that some of the current England incumbents are so very proud of !!)

by beamer Wed 07 May 2014, 16:49

Plenty have been written off on one or two Tests before.

I admire your confidence that these county journeymen will suddenly become Bradmans (Bradmen?) when they're no longer facing Mitchell Johnson... and talking of popgun attacks on flatties, remember that innings Compton played against NZ when we were supposedly trying to force a win? I know Cook and Trott were equally culpable on that occasion, but "rabbit in the headlights" would be an insult to all the bunnies out there.

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 May 2014, 17:59

Compton was no doubt het up at the feverish hyperbole surrounding Joew Woot and said pulling of the scrotum regarding the vapid 'Oh he just MUST open' campaign. He must have known that 'the think tank' were about to kick him out if he didn't get a ton. That was one of the most ghastly decisions I've got in my recent memory, so clueless was it that the magnitude of the ramifications cannot be played down. It was a team changer, IMO. It changed us from boring and weak, to boring and f*cking weak. The fallout is still being felt now.

p.s. the above is dramatic, purely speculative and cannot in any way be quantified. But I know. I just know.

by Winkle Spinner Wed 07 May 2014, 18:09

I saw some highlights of the Yorkshire/Durham match. Plunkett looked quite decent and bowled some hostile bouncers. More impressed by Rashid though - sure, they don't show many of the bad balls in the highlights but a couple of his wickets were rippers.

by beamer Wed 07 May 2014, 19:00

Brass Monkey wrote:Compton was no doubt het up at the feverish hyperbole surrounding Joew Woot and said pulling of the scrotum regarding the vapid 'Oh he just MUST open' campaign. He must have known that 'the think tank' were about to kick him out if he didn't get a ton. That was one of the most ghastly decisions I've got in my recent memory, so clueless was it that the magnitude of the ramifications cannot be played down. It was a team changer, IMO. It changed us from boring and weak, to boring and f*cking weak. The fallout is still being felt now.

p.s. the above is dramatic, purely speculative and cannot in any way be quantified. But I know. I just know.

Yeah, agree the Root move was a mistake at that point in time... don't really know where we go with the opening position, Robson deserves a chance (if only to make sure he doesn't get tempted by Australia...) but promises more of the same in terms of style as opposed to a fresh dynamic approach by all accounts. Just wish there was a new Trescothick out there. Maybe there is a wildcard option somewhere.

Obviously Cook's the certainty, like it or not, for the time being... but if he has another bad season and gives up the captaincy I can see him out of the team, for a while at least. Hope he can rediscover the form of 3-4 years ago but just not sure it's going to happen, especially as captain and with the Shitewash and KP-gate hanging over him with fans and the media. I wonder if there will be a few boos when he walks out to bat in this summer's first Test?

by Merlin Wed 07 May 2014, 21:22

beamer wrote:Plenty have been written off on one or two Tests before.

I admire your confidence that these county journeymen will suddenly become Bradmans (Bradmen?) when they're no longer facing Mitchell Johnson... and talking of popgun attacks on flatties, remember that innings Compton played against NZ when we were supposedly trying to force a win? I know Cook and Trott were equally culpable on that occasion, but "rabbit in the headlights" would be an insult to all the bunnies out there.

Who the hell is referring to them Bradman?
Not I.

The point I'm making - which you seem to ignore - is that allowing "journeyman cricketers" as you so blithely call these two, a mere 15 tests between them to make their mark, and then scuttling them in no uncertain terms, is a trite rich.

Let's face it, most of the England squad started off as journeymen cricketers - some in the current team, in fact, still are -
I now rate Cook as a lucky journeyman - along with Bairstow, Root, Bresnan, Morgan, Stokes . . . yep, all of them - unproven and labouring (as they did Down Under) make ALL their places up for grabs.

So why single out Compton and Carberry - oh yes, let's remind ourselves, like Chris Rogers for Aus, they're both "past it" at 30 !!
Very Happy

by Merlin Wed 07 May 2014, 21:25

I wonder if there will be a few boos when he walks out to bat in this summer's first Test?

I passionately hope so.
He is, to all intents and purposes (other than the ECB's) unworthy.

by lardbucket Wed 07 May 2014, 22:25

beamer wrote:Plenty have been written off on one or two Tests before.

Chris Rogers and Matthew Hayden for starters; they've ended up managing OK.

Surely Robson will be chosen for England's first Test this year? Mountains of runs, confident, and then as the BMW says ... at least it stops Australia picking him in the future, even if (like McCague) he turns out to be a dud.

BTW, the automatic spellcheck wants me to call McCague 'macaque'. Harsh but fair?

by beamer Wed 07 May 2014, 22:58

Merlin wrote:
beamer wrote:Plenty have been written off on one or two Tests before.

I admire your confidence that these county journeymen will suddenly become Bradmans (Bradmen?) when they're no longer facing Mitchell Johnson... and talking of popgun attacks on flatties, remember that innings Compton played against NZ when we were supposedly trying to force a win? I know Cook and Trott were equally culpable on that occasion, but "rabbit in the headlights" would be an insult to all the bunnies out there.

Who the hell is referring to them Bradman?
Not I.

The point I'm making - which you seem to ignore - is that allowing "journeyman cricketers" as you so blithely call these two, a mere 15 tests between them to make their mark, and then scuttling them in no uncertain terms, is a trite rich.

Let's face it, most of the England squad started off as journeymen cricketers - some in the current team, in fact, still are -
I now rate Cook as a lucky journeyman - along with Bairstow, Root, Bresnan, Morgan, Stokes . . . yep, all of them - unproven and labouring (as they did Down Under) make ALL their places up for grabs.

So why single out Compton and Carberry - oh yes, let's remind ourselves, like Chris Rogers for Aus, they're both "past it" at 30 !!

Well, you're clearly not going to see sense on this one... I'm not singling out those two specifically, those others you list and indeed everyone who's played for England recently deserves to have their place questioned. I just don't see them as the dynamic cricketers with significant upside potential that can drive England forward from this rock bottom position. Australia turned to Rogers when they had exhausted the other options. It worked for them on that occasion. Let's try some fresh players out first, with no connection to the pathetic showings of the past year, then we can look backwards if things still don't improve.

by Basil Thu 08 May 2014, 00:26

beamer wrote:I'd happily discard as many people associated with that tour as possible. We're stuck with Cook, Bell, Anderson and Broad at least for a while longer, but otherwise if it's a choice between someone who was out there and someone who wasn't, go with the latter. Follow the rugby team's example.

Yeah, pity we're "stuck" with four world class players. Lets get Kyle Hogg, Daryl Mitchell, Neil Dexter and Jack Shantry in - that'll shake things up.

by lardbucket Thu 08 May 2014, 00:34

Is Stubbings available?

by beamer Thu 08 May 2014, 00:38

Basil wrote:
beamer wrote:I'd happily discard as many people associated with that tour as possible. We're stuck with Cook, Bell, Anderson and Broad at least for a while longer, but otherwise if it's a choice between someone who was out there and someone who wasn't, go with the latter. Follow the rugby team's example.

Yeah, pity we're "stuck" with four world class players. Lets get Kyle Hogg, Daryl Mitchell, Neil Dexter and Jack Shantry in - that'll shake things up.

I'm just not sure if any of them have much left in the tank. That tour will go down as the career destroyer and think there will be more names to add to those already on the list.

by horace Thu 08 May 2014, 01:36

I think Monkeh and merls are spot on in this debate...Carbs was one of the few Poms who earned admiration from the convicts...he stuck fat....amidst the anaemic efforts of most of his colleagues...he more than most deserves another go

by horace Thu 08 May 2014, 04:12

meanwhile only 2 results from the completed cc games overnight...congrats to Warks and Kent for achieving the two outrights

by Basil Thu 08 May 2014, 07:06

Merlin wrote:
I wonder if there will be a few boos when he walks out to bat in this summer's first Test?

I passionately hope so.
He is, to all intents and purposes (other than the ECB's) unworthy.

So, you actually want a home crowd to boo a player selected for England? Really?

by Merlin Thu 08 May 2014, 09:47

Basil wrote:
Merlin wrote:
I wonder if there will be a few boos when he walks out to bat in this summer's first Test?

I passionately hope so.
He is, to all intents and purposes (other than the ECB's) unworthy.

So, you actually want a home crowd to boo a player selected for England? Really?

Yep.
I do without reservation.

Unless of course you approve of a captain who loses 9 out of 10 games in a series and then
loftily purchases himself atop the pile proclaiming a new dawn ahead.

Doesn't sit too comfortably with me, I'm afraid.
Like it or not, give him the boo, and in a small way, let him know exactly what the real cricket fans think.

by Brass Monkey Thu 08 May 2014, 11:57

Cook has gone so far down in my estimations it is unbelievable. I don't know if booing would help TBH - I think he's been fatted up so heavily by the ECB that it would be water off a duck's back.

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