Re: The Wimbledon Thread - anyone for tennis?

by beamer Fri 09 Jul 2021, 10:41

Just as a comparison… Sampras retired at 31, Becker at 31 (though he seemed to be around forever due to starting so young), Edberg at 30, Borg at 28.

We’re still regarding players in their mid-to-late 20s now as “up and coming” or “next generation”. In the old days (even up to the start of the big three era), if you hadn’t won anything major by 21 you were never likely to.

by beamer Fri 09 Jul 2021, 14:49

The bageller gets bagelled… Berrettini might just give Djokovic a decent game. If so, hope he’s the only Italian to turn up on Sunday Wink

by skully Sat 10 Jul 2021, 10:03

JGK wrote:Meanwhile, well done (in advance) for Ash Barty coming second.

by lardbucket Sat 10 Jul 2021, 17:04

Good final, actually enjoyed watching that. Fine comeback from Pliskova after Barty served for the match at 6-5; then Barty re-gathered and finished the match clinically.

She then spoke really well at the post-match interview until she was asked about the influence of Evonne Goolagong ... and was too overcome by emotion to answer.

by skully Sun 11 Jul 2021, 01:45

Congrats to Ash.

What a great champion. Are you watching Kyrgios and Tomic?

by JGK Sun 11 Jul 2021, 02:34

lardbucket wrote:Good final, actually enjoyed watching that. Fine comeback from Pliskova after Barty served for the match at 6-5; then Barty re-gathered and finished the match clinically.

She then spoke really well at the post-match interview until she was asked about the influence of Evonne Goolagong ... and was too overcome by emotion to answer.

Did you see the honour board? Goolagong is still listed as Mrs R Cawley. Chrissy is listed as Mrs J Lloyd.

by JGK Sun 11 Jul 2021, 02:35

skully wrote:Congrats to Ash.

What a great champion. Are you watching Kyrgios and Tomic?

Only Wimbledon winner with a List A half century?

by skully Sun 11 Jul 2021, 06:22

As discussed elsewhere, the first ever Wimbledon champion was Spencer Gore, who preferred cricket to tennis and made a 1st class ton for I Zingari v Yorkshire.

by embee Sun 11 Jul 2021, 06:27

skully wrote:As discussed elsewhere, the first ever Wimbledon champion was Spencer Gore, who preferred cricket to tennis and made a 1st class ton for I Zingari v Yorkshire.

yeh but what did he manage in List A

by lardbucket Sun 11 Jul 2021, 06:46

skully wrote:Congrats to Ash.

What a great champion. Are you watching Kyrgios and Tomic?

No. No interest.

by beamer Sun 11 Jul 2021, 17:41

All three of the legends level on 20 Slams now… they should all retire at once and leave the pundits to debate it forever Wink

I can see Djokovic making 25 or even 30. Federer’s surely done (though he’s done a remarkable job given he’s had the age disadvantage ever since his rivals emerged, I mean some were writing him off after he lost the 2008 final!) and Nadal could have another French Open or two in him.

The younger players, well there’s talent there, I mean Shapovalov in the semi pretty much had the measure of Djokovic physically but couldn’t convert the big points. Berrettini had his moments but the champion didn’t need to play his best to win. Mentally and in terms of consistency they’re still a mile off. I think Djokovic will largely have things to himself for another couple of years, fitness permitting.

by beamer Thu 15 Jul 2021, 11:29

Found a site doing an interesting “GOAT ranking” on Open Era men’s singles tennis, based on Slams, rankings, tournaments etc. Top 20 all feels quite plausible, though there’s some anomalies further down. Maybe gives a bit too much weight to career longevity and minor tournaments, though hard to argue against the top three by any measure now.

Order is:
1) Djokovic
2) Federer
3) Nadal
4) Connors
5) Lendl
6) Sampras
7) McEnroe
8) Borg
9) Agassi
10) Laver (admittedly under-rated due to spanning eras)

11-20: Becker, Edberg, Murray, Wilander, Vilas, Nastase, Rosewall, Ashe, Newcombe, Hewitt.

by Fred Nerk Thu 15 Jul 2021, 12:33

65: Cash
83: Henman
127: Phillipousis
Equal 1871: Tomic, Bates

by beamer Thu 15 Jul 2021, 13:52

Not too far off with some of those! Ranking players with zero/one Slam to their name is pretty subjective anyway… hadn’t realised Cash had so little on his CV beyond that Wimbledon win. Was in a pretty strong era though.

by Fred Nerk Thu 15 Jul 2021, 14:15

The best of Pat's other work besides Wimbers 87 was all done in Davis Cup, although he did finish runner-up twice in the Aus Open. In many ways he was an Anglo Kyrgios - more issues than the Saturday night Herald, often injured, not always quite on the job mentally, but in the team environment able to raise his level thru the roof.

by JGK Fri 16 Jul 2021, 09:18

Fred Nerk wrote:The best of Pat's other work besides Wimbers 87 was all done in Davis Cup, although he did finish runner-up twice in the Aus Open. In many ways he was an Anglo Kyrgios - more issues than the Saturday night Herald, often injured, not always quite on the job mentally, but in the team environment able to raise his level thru the roof.

Had match point against Lendl in the 1984 US Open semi final as well.

by beamer Fri 16 Jul 2021, 09:37

I guess one factor in Djokovic’s favour is the reduced difference between the surfaces. I know, Nadal has dominated to an unprecedented level on clay, but if you go back a generation, Sampras was never going to win in Paris and Agassi had to have a really inspired couple of weeks of form to do so on grass. If he’d been born 15 or 20 years earlier, Djokovic would have no doubt been sent packing by a few 7 foot Croatian ace-serving machines in the early rounds.

by JGK Sat 17 Jul 2021, 05:25

Yeah - Wimbledon has really slowed down.

by beamer Sat 17 Jul 2021, 09:54

It was so boring in Sampras’s era that they had to do something I suppose, the serve-volley skill game of the 70s and 80s had been turned into a firing range by racquet technology. It’s perhaps gone too far the other way now though.

by beamer Fri 20 Aug 2021, 15:47

And then there was one… Nadal joins Federer in writing off the US Open and rest of this year.

by JGK Sat 21 Aug 2021, 08:50

Federer will probably save himself for one more Wimbledon.

Rafa's injuries seem chronic. Just like Novak's dickheadedness.

by beamer Sat 21 Aug 2021, 09:46

Rafa’s injuries have been chronic for about 10 years, but he still keeps hanging on in there. It’s a fair while since he won (or even got close to) a major not on clay, though.

I know Federer won’t want to finish with a bagel at Wimbledon but if he does want to come back it’s going to be a long-term recovery to at best battle through a few rounds now.

I think Djokovic will get close to 30 Slams if he stays fit, unless someone really jumps out from the pack in the next couple of years.

by beamer Wed 01 Sep 2021, 09:47

Toiletgate rumbles on… hard to know what the authorities can do other than time them, suggest they wear nappies or piss in a bottle? But it’s a reflection of the wider gamesmanship in the sport particularly regarding injury time-outs which the top players wilfully misuse. It all needs tackling somehow or other.

by Fred Nerk Wed 01 Sep 2021, 12:29

Seems a story was missed re Ash's opponent this morning: Vera Zvonareva, former World #2, looked a shoo-in to win the Oz Open in 2012 until she inexpicably lost her semi and has barely been seen since until re-surfacing in this tournament. She must now be close to 35 years old. Where has she been?

by JGK Wed 01 Sep 2021, 12:52

beamer wrote:Toiletgate rumbles on… hard to know what the authorities can do other than time them, suggest they wear nappies or piss in a bottle? But it’s a reflection of the wider gamesmanship in the sport particularly regarding injury time-outs which the top players wilfully misuse. It all needs tackling somehow or other.

It’s worked for Joker for about a decade so why wouldn’t the others try to do the same?

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