So Harbhajan is a Rascist is he?

ICC ~ Malcolm Speed

Exactly trev, putting aside you idiotic bias do you really think it's a good idea to have a team that can play by it's own rules because of financial clout?

surely even you can see that long term that's bad for the sport as whole including India?

please don't yell wrote:He's just trying to do his job he can't help that his forefathers are of African origin, it doesn't warrant being abused while playing a game.

thats so funny coming from an australian it hurts

i wonder why calling someone bastard or mother-f*cker is acceptable but not monkey. is one cultural interpretation superior to another? shut your f*cking gobs if you cant take it yourself

How on earth and in what culture is calling someone a bastard racist?

It's known around the world that calling a black man a monkey is racist, i can't believe in 2008 im even ahving a conversation about this.

In fact im not it's so pathetically idiotic blinkered and backward as to not even warrant my contempt.

who said its racist? do you even read? its extremely offensive to most cultured people though. uncultured yobs mouthing it off as a term of endearment in some parts of the world does not make it acceptable

india should report every bloody aussie player for every bit of abuse that came their way during the match. i'd like to see their whole team banned for a few matches

Christ, TO. I've never ever seen you forum as bitterly as this.

The only other time was when you, Goel, Moh and some other Indians were lambasting me over the usual SRT/BCL debates.

But jaysuz you are angry over this test's incidents.

'Monkey' is racist.

'bastard' and other foul words might be offensive to some; if they open this can of worms they'd better be prepared for wiring of players, tape playbacks, and exposure of hypocrisy.

It's not a kindergarten out there. Swearing and cursing will occur, but racist remarks are totally unacceptable ... from any player, in any team.

I don't believe Hoggy called him that.If he did he would have been reported.Contrary to what people say,the Aussies do not personally abuse the opposition(this came into force after the McGrath incident).If they did,they would be on report all the time.All teams are looking for any edge to use against them.If it was proven that Hoggy did call him that then I would be happy for him to be punished.

Punish someone for using the word bastard, you're going to have bannings after nearly every game. Perhaps we should set up a swear jar ...

Can just see Fred Trueman, Ian Botham, Darren Gough, Lillee quothing 'Gosh, you're a lucky fellow, aren't you by Jove' at batsmen who snick them for boundaries. "oh rats' as a catch goes down.

The problem we are discussing is one of totally unacceptable racial abuse; although I understand why some might want to stray from this and introduce distractions.

noelene wrote:I don't believe Hoggy called him that.If he did he would have been reported.Contrary to what people say,the Aussies do not personally abuse the opposition(this came into force after the McGrath incident).If they did,they would be on report all the time.All teams are looking for any edge to use against them.If it was proven that Hoggy did call him that then I would be happy for him to be punished.

PMSL.

I confess i muttered some unkind words about Piggsy and his 'bowling' yesterday

The only doubt I have with the allegation against Hogg is due to his tongue being wedged up his nose for most of the day in question, in full view of the camera.

leg glancer wrote:http://karthik3685.wordpress.com/2008/01/05/the-aussie-ploy-again/

Pretty much sums it up.

I wonder if they're still bored of it. How stupid would you have to be, as an Indian supporter trying to defend Harbajhan against an allegation of racial vilification, to post a link to an article where another player uses the very word which has caused the offence, perhaps under the delusion that it was remotely clever or amusing.

What's Karthik got to say about it now? Still making merry with the monkey jibes, is he?

Paul Keating wrote:Christ, TO. I've never ever seen you forum as bitterly as this.

The only other time was when you, Goel, Moh and some other Indians were lambasting me over the usual SRT/BCL debates.

But jaysuz you are angry over this test's incidents.

the srt/bcl debates were not real anger, just heated debates (when the forum was much better imo, none of this constant baiting and subi/sook calling that this seems infested with)

i can honestly say i have never been more angry at the end of a match, whatever sport. crucial decisions going 8-1 against you (and i am not even counting lbws), a player being banned due to one man's word over another, the appealing after all the talk of spirit and trust by the aussies. even a day after the match i am still pretty peeved

lardbucket wrote:'Monkey' is racist.

'bastard' and other foul words might be offensive to some; if they open this can of worms they'd better be prepared for wiring of players, tape playbacks, and exposure of hypocrisy.

It's not a kindergarten out there. Swearing and cursing will occur, but racist remarks are totally unacceptable ... from any player, in any team.

cultural interpretations. try calling someone a 'bandar' in india or a 'madher-chod' and see which gets a worse reaction. not justifying racist remarks, they are worthy of the highest punishment. but dont see why other forms of abuse, which are considered as bad as racism in certain cultures, are not given the same punishment. bastard might be acceptable to aussies, but in india its a severe insult to one's family, and that is not taken lightly at all in the asian countries

please don't yell wrote:How on earth and in what culture is calling someone a bastard racist?

It's known around the world that calling a black man a monkey is racist, i can't believe in 2008 im even ahving a conversation about this.

In fact im not it's so pathetically idiotic blinkered and backward as to not even warrant my contempt.

1] Symonds is NOT a black man.

2] The Racism allegation has no credible proof. In this case even the cameras have not caught anything. Aus cannot abuse any player they like and then cry about getting back. In the end, It is just the word of Aus players against Bhajji and given that they were not even standing close enough to hear anything being said and that even the umpires didn't hear it, the ruling is completely unfair. It is opening the floodgates to deliberate framings of players in the future.

3] In India, being called bastard is considered most drerogatory and worst kind of abuse far more worst than any racist comment you may or not percieve. Let fair play then prevail and lets see Hogg getting a 3 test ban as well. Racism like in case of Africans is more about cultural prejudices and has no global defined notions of what words can be percieved as a racist. In India being called a bastard is a cultural enough offence and one that can be treated as racism. In Indian culture and society having children out of marriage is not acceptable and a social taboo of the worst kind and so people are very sensitive to being called bastards. The name and identification of one's father here matters a lot to a child's life throughout his existance in all spheres of life right from filling up the school form to enrolling in the college, a person's identity is recognized from his father's name or the family he hails from. And it is held in sacredness. Calling one a bastard here is also seen as a slur on one's mother's character and something that people here don't take too kindly too. Modernization is changing this conservative trend a bit, but it will be a couple of deacdes more before Indians or Pakistanis can learn to drink at being called bastards. You have to understand why racism is not just about the colour of the skin. Calling someone monkey is no more racist than calling someone a bastard or someone's mother a whore. The free western countries may not mind having a bastard in every family and may not see it as an abuse even. It's purely a cultural thing in the end. So as in case of Symonds, Kumble and Dhoni have every right to feel racially abused and take it to it's logical end if the Referees are going to get into monkey business of taking a player's word solely to judge and to arbitararily on banning a player for 3 tests without an iota of credible evidence.

Batman wrote:

please don't yell wrote:How on earth and in what culture is calling someone a bastard racist?

It's known around the world that calling a black man a monkey is racist, i can't believe in 2008 im even ahving a conversation about this.

In fact im not it's so pathetically idiotic blinkered and backward as to not even warrant my contempt.

1] Symonds is NOT a black man.

2] The Racism allegation has no credible proof. Lehmann was punished becauise TV footage showed him making racist abuse.

See, I lose interest immediately when people make things up.

The One wrote:

lardbucket wrote:'Monkey' is racist.

'bastard' and other foul words might be offensive to some; if they open this can of worms they'd better be prepared for wiring of players, tape playbacks, and exposure of hypocrisy.

It's not a kindergarten out there. Swearing and cursing will occur, but racist remarks are totally unacceptable ... from any player, in any team.

cultural interpretations. try calling someone a 'bandar' in india or a 'madher-chod' and see which gets a worse reaction

Fair warning. Let me know if and when any touring Australians start throwing these terms around.

The 'monkey' thing was highlighted before the tour, because of events in Mumbai. Some Indians clearly still think it's funny. Mike Procter is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the term was used (in the heat of the moment) by Harbajhan, that it was directed at Symonds, and that it was calculated to cause offence based on 'race'.

lardbucket wrote:'Monkey' is racist.

'bastard' and other foul words might be offensive to some; if they open this can of worms they'd better be prepared for wiring of players, tape playbacks, and exposure of hypocrisy.

It's not a kindergarten out there. Swearing and cursing will occur, but racist remarks are totally unacceptable ... from any player, in any team.

please don't yell wrote:How on earth and in what culture is calling someone a bastard racist?

It's known around the world that calling a black man a monkey is racist, i can't believe in 2008 im even ahving a conversation about this.

In fact im not it's so pathetically idiotic blinkered and backward as to not even warrant my contempt.

1] Symonds is NOT a black man.

2] The Racism allegation has no credible proof. In this case even the cameras have not caught anything. Aus cannot abuse any player they like and then cry about getting back. In the end, It is just the word of Aus players against Bhajji and given that they were not even standing close enough to hear anything being said and that even the umpires didn't hear it, the ruling is completely unfair. It is opening the floodgates to deliberate framings of players in the future.

3] In India, being called bastard is considered most derogatory and worst kind of abuse far more worst than any racist comment you may or not perceive. Let fair play then prevail and lets see Hogg getting a 3 test ban as well. Racism like in case of Africans is more about cultural prejudices and has no global defined notions of what words can be perceived as a racist. In India being called a bastard is a cultural enough offence and one that can be treated as racism. In Indian culture and society having children out of marriage is not acceptable and a social taboo of the worst kind and so people are very sensitive to being called bastards. The name and identification of one's father here matters a lot to a child's life throughout his existence in all spheres of life right from filling up the school form to enrolling in the college, a person's identity is recognized from his father's name or the family he hails from. And it is held in sacredness. Calling one a bastard here is also seen as a slur on one's mother's character and something that people here don't take too kindly too. Modernization is changing this conservative trend a bit, but it will be a couple of decades more before Indians or Pakistanis can learn to drink at being called bastards. You have to understand why racism is not just about the color of the skin. Calling someone monkey is no more racist than calling someone a bastard or someone's mother a whore. The free western countries may not mind having a bastard in every family and may not see it as an abuse even. It's purely a cultural thing in the end. So as in case of Symonds, Kumble and Dhoni have every right to feel racially abused and take it to it's logical end if the Referees are going to get into monkey business of taking a player's word solely to judge and to arbitrarily on banning a player for 3 tests without an iota of credible evidence.

And for your information, monkeys are worshipped in India. The monkey god Hanuman who mythologically helped Lord Rama, Vishnu's 5th incarnation as a mortal to vanquish the evil demon Ravana is a much worshipped and a revered figure. Calling people monkey here is as casual as calling people bastards in Aus perhaps. So who is too judge what is acceptable racism and what is not in this case? In which case the same set of rules apply to everyone else. Symonds in this case then is no more racially abused than Kumble and Dhoni. Time for Hogg to serve time in the cooler in all fairness.

"Mike Procter is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt"

that really is the issue. what has he relied on?

also doesnt address my second point. why should abuse be tolerated at all, esp when its not taken lightly in many cultures

lardbucket wrote:

Batman wrote:

please don't yell wrote:How on earth and in what culture is calling someone a bastard racist?

It's known around the world that calling a black man a monkey is racist, i can't believe in 2008 im even ahving a conversation about this.

In fact im not it's so pathetically idiotic blinkered and backward as to not even warrant my contempt.

1] Symonds is NOT a black man.

2] The Racism allegation has no credible proof. Lehmann was punished becauise TV footage showed him making racist abuse.

See, I lose interest immediately when people make things up.

Biased judgements in Aus's favour seldom get Aussies interested. Now if the test were played on a Mumbai pitch where M Clarke would get 6 wickets for 9 runs and if despite equal opportunities Aus lost again, we would see how interested and sooky Aussies could get.

Well I would suggest Neutral umpires, but you wouldn't want Aussies umpiring Australia (imagine the racist decisions ..despite the best ump there is being Australian.)

Vikas, Lehmann wasn't caught on TV camera. You've posted that 3 times now. Saying it over and over again won't make it true.

Pleased to see you've decided to fall back on the 'monkey is a form of praise' defence. It had to happen.

I imagine Hoggy will be banned from the Perth Test for using the word 'bastard'.

Poor bastard.