Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
+16
Red
Henry
Blackadder
Paul Keating
Hass
WideWally
G.Wood
Fred Nerk
Big Dog
horace
lardbucket
taipan
JGK
embee
Bradman
skully
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The Flaming Bails Cricket ForumPage 5 of 40
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by horace Tue 02 Sep 2014, 02:12
at least filth murdoch knew he had to invest in capital equipment...I remember talking with several BHP workers in Newky before the gates were shut ...they had gone through umpteen rounds of productivity efforts but were using equipment that had been commissioned in the 1950s...they had no chance against high capital investment competitors....same story in Whyalla....generations of filth major shareholders and inbred directors had ripped billions out of the company...
at least Robert Holmes a Court made no pretence about asset stripping....the squeals of the inbred BHP directors of BHP when defending against RHaC still echo
at least Robert Holmes a Court made no pretence about asset stripping....the squeals of the inbred BHP directors of BHP when defending against RHaC still echo
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by embee Tue 02 Sep 2014, 03:24
horace wrote:I am yet to see Skully's argument that things have got better in the m/e as a result of 20+ years of western involvement....have we found wmd yet?
its an unmeasurable , h
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by embee Tue 02 Sep 2014, 04:37
there were dead people in the m/e before western involvement
the seppos sold saddam the ingredients for wmd ...that they never found any (that they told us about) is a worry
the seppos sold saddam the ingredients for wmd ...that they never found any (that they told us about) is a worry
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by horace Tue 02 Sep 2014, 04:46
aye....no doubt and estimates vary - - close to 200,000 deaths in Iraq according to one site (civilian and military combatants)
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by JGK Tue 02 Sep 2014, 05:42
MRRT finally goes but some of the attached spending measures have been kept for a few more years as part of the deal with PUP.
Increases in Super Guarantee have been delayed by 7 years though.
Gen X gets rooted again.
Increases in Super Guarantee have been delayed by 7 years though.
Gen X gets rooted again.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by embee Tue 02 Sep 2014, 06:35
Gen X is quite capable of putting away additional super if it worries them that much
If you signed up to your current job on a super and salary package ...you took an automatic pay cut on July 1 when the extra super kicked in
If you signed up to your current job on a super and salary package ...you took an automatic pay cut on July 1 when the extra super kicked in
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by taipan Tue 02 Sep 2014, 06:50
embee wrote:Gen X is quite capable of putting away additional super if it worries them that much
If you signed up to your current job on a super and salary package ...you took an automatic pay cut on July 1 when the extra super kicked in
So you have to pay the super yourself?
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by embee Tue 02 Sep 2014, 06:57
Employees have 9.5% of their wages paid as super (eg wages = 100000 , super = 9500) by their employer
you can pay extra if you want to (either salary sacrifice or personal contribution)
contributions taxed at different rates in super fund depending on where they come from
you can pay extra if you want to (either salary sacrifice or personal contribution)
contributions taxed at different rates in super fund depending on where they come from
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by taipan Tue 02 Sep 2014, 07:02
embee wrote:Employees have 9.5% of their wages paid as super (eg wages = 100000 , super = 9500) by their employer
you can pay extra if you want to (either salary sacrifice or personal contribution)
contributions taxed at different rates in super fund depending on where they come from
Somehow I fluked into a fairly unique situation. My employer pays the full whack, currently running at 27%.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by JGK Tue 02 Sep 2014, 07:20
embee wrote:Gen X is quite capable of putting away additional super if it worries them that much
If you signed up to your current job on a super and salary package ...you took an automatic pay cut on July 1 when the extra super kicked in
Meh - my employer paid the extra.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by skully Tue 02 Sep 2014, 08:30
I thought you weren't in Super? "They are ways" was your response when I questioned your self-admitted lack of Super balance.JGK wrote:MRRT finally goes but some of the attached spending measures have been kept for a few more years as part of the deal with PUP.
Increases in Super Guarantee have been delayed by 7 years though.
Gen X gets rooted again.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by JGK Tue 02 Sep 2014, 09:07
I'm not particularly but I was talking about my fellow Gen Xers more generally.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by skully Tue 02 Sep 2014, 11:15
Meh, I'm with MB, let 'em eat cake. They generally have the same view as you - "Fark saving for retirement, I'm gonna travel the world". Good luck to them and to each their own, but they shouldn't whinge when this sort of stuff happens.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by horace Wed 03 Sep 2014, 02:44
http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/09/02/our-land-is-girt-by-oil-rich-sea-that-we-steal-from-east-timor/
must admit I look forward to Downer giving evidence at a Royal Commission on this appalling episode...he was Minister at the time and subsequently obtained financial benefit from Woodside....this fraud is on a monumental scale with billions involved where taxpayers funds have been used to spy on and take advantage of a poor country for the benefit of a provate company and various liberal nobs - led by Downer
must admit I look forward to Downer giving evidence at a Royal Commission on this appalling episode...he was Minister at the time and subsequently obtained financial benefit from Woodside....this fraud is on a monumental scale with billions involved where taxpayers funds have been used to spy on and take advantage of a poor country for the benefit of a provate company and various liberal nobs - led by Downer
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by embee Wed 03 Sep 2014, 03:13
phurt ...they'd only waste the money on unimportant stuff like education health and infrastructure
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by JGK Wed 03 Sep 2014, 08:41
The great one speaks:
- Spoiler:
Statement by PJ Keating
Superannuation Guarantee Charge
Decision by the government to abandon 12% contributions
Mandatory superannuation contributions of 9.5% spread over a 35 year working life for someone on $100,000 to $150,000 per annum will provide an income after retirement of roughly 50% of pre-retirement income.
This is way below the 70% of pre-retirement income replacement a Superannuation Guarantee at 12% would provide. And 70% is the income level adjudged by income specialists and welfare groups as the appropriate level of disposable income needed in retirement.
Under the current law, the changes introduced by the former Labor government would see the 12% rate begin on 1 July, 2019.
The government decision yesterday, with the connivance of the Palmer United party, jams compulsory superannuation contributions at 9.5% till July 2021 – effectively wiping out any prospect of the SG ever moving beyond 9.5% without a change of government.
Yesterday’s decision represents nothing other than the wilful sabotage of the nation’s universal savings scheme. And sabotage for reasons only of prejudice.
The government’s connivance with PUP to spike superannuation at 9.5% has little to do with the budget balance this year, or the early out years, and everything to do with cheap ideology.
The Liberal party has always opposed universal superannuation and as it revealed yesterday, it still does.
This decision ranks with that of the former Howard government’s 1996 decision to abandon the Keating government’s 15% Superannuation Guarantee, designed particularly to lift the 1940s baby boom generation to more adequate levels of accumulation in their remaining years before retirement.
The cost of yesterday’s decision will not only adversely affect the baby boom generation but more substantially, their children – the so called generations X and Y.
The Howard/Costello decision in 1996 cost the average Australian worker roughly $250,000 in accumulation over their working life. The cost of yesterday’s decision will be in the region of a further $100,000.
The Prime Minister and Mr Palmer trotted out the tawdry argument that working people are better off with cash in their hand today than savings for tomorrow. They omit to say that superannuation savings represent deferred consumption, not lost consumption. But more than that, that their superannuation contributions become compound savings – where the earnings on their accumulations, are in tax terms, permitted to earn further. That is, earnings on the earnings – compound earnings which, over a lifetime, grow exponentially to support a person in retirement.
If Tony Abbott’s argument about the value of cash today had substance, there would be no savings. No savings in savings banks and no savings in superannuation. For, if the Prime Minister’s claim were to be true in logic, it would need to be true absolutely. That is, the notion that people are better off spending and disposing of all their income than saving any part of it.
This week, Australia’s pool of superannuation savings tipped $1.87 trillion – larger than the market capitalisation of the Australian Stock Exchange. That vast pool of savings which has revolutionised our capital markets and dramatically lowered the cost of Australian capital, exists, in the main, because of compulsory superannuation.
You don’t expect conservative governments to believe in much but, at least, you expect them to believe in thrift. This government does not even believe in thrift.
The treasurer talks in ending the age of entitlement. I gave substance to that notion 30 years ago, when I first asked Australians to provide for their own retirement – to move beyond reliance on the age pension as the default anti-destitution measure.
Yesterday’s decision puts the pension back at centre stage, as retirees find that their superannuation accumulation is not large enough for them to live from without pension supplementation.
Yesterday’s decision is an appalling one – by a government lacking any genuine or conscientious concern for the nation’s workforce.
Sydney
3 September 2014.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by Big Dog Wed 03 Sep 2014, 08:44
JGK wrote:The great one speaks:
- Spoiler:
Statement by PJ Keating
Superannuation Guarantee Charge
Decision by the government to abandon 12% contributions
Mandatory superannuation contributions of 9.5% spread over a 35 year working life for someone on $100,000 to $150,000 per annum will provide an income after retirement of roughly 50% of pre-retirement income.
This is way below the 70% of pre-retirement income replacement a Superannuation Guarantee at 12% would provide. And 70% is the income level adjudged by income specialists and welfare groups as the appropriate level of disposable income needed in retirement.
Under the current law, the changes introduced by the former Labor government would see the 12% rate begin on 1 July, 2019.
The government decision yesterday, with the connivance of the Palmer United party, jams compulsory superannuation contributions at 9.5% till July 2021 – effectively wiping out any prospect of the SG ever moving beyond 9.5% without a change of government.
Yesterday’s decision represents nothing other than the wilful sabotage of the nation’s universal savings scheme. And sabotage for reasons only of prejudice.
The government’s connivance with PUP to spike superannuation at 9.5% has little to do with the budget balance this year, or the early out years, and everything to do with cheap ideology.
The Liberal party has always opposed universal superannuation and as it revealed yesterday, it still does.
This decision ranks with that of the former Howard government’s 1996 decision to abandon the Keating government’s 15% Superannuation Guarantee, designed particularly to lift the 1940s baby boom generation to more adequate levels of accumulation in their remaining years before retirement.
The cost of yesterday’s decision will not only adversely affect the baby boom generation but more substantially, their children – the so called generations X and Y.
The Howard/Costello decision in 1996 cost the average Australian worker roughly $250,000 in accumulation over their working life. The cost of yesterday’s decision will be in the region of a further $100,000.
The Prime Minister and Mr Palmer trotted out the tawdry argument that working people are better off with cash in their hand today than savings for tomorrow. They omit to say that superannuation savings represent deferred consumption, not lost consumption. But more than that, that their superannuation contributions become compound savings – where the earnings on their accumulations, are in tax terms, permitted to earn further. That is, earnings on the earnings – compound earnings which, over a lifetime, grow exponentially to support a person in retirement.
If Tony Abbott’s argument about the value of cash today had substance, there would be no savings. No savings in savings banks and no savings in superannuation. For, if the Prime Minister’s claim were to be true in logic, it would need to be true absolutely. That is, the notion that people are better off spending and disposing of all their income than saving any part of it.
This week, Australia’s pool of superannuation savings tipped $1.87 trillion – larger than the market capitalisation of the Australian Stock Exchange. That vast pool of savings which has revolutionised our capital markets and dramatically lowered the cost of Australian capital, exists, in the main, because of compulsory superannuation.
You don’t expect conservative governments to believe in much but, at least, you expect them to believe in thrift. This government does not even believe in thrift.
The treasurer talks in ending the age of entitlement. I gave substance to that notion 30 years ago, when I first asked Australians to provide for their own retirement – to move beyond reliance on the age pension as the default anti-destitution measure.
Yesterday’s decision puts the pension back at centre stage, as retirees find that their superannuation accumulation is not large enough for them to live from without pension supplementation.
Yesterday’s decision is an appalling one – by a government lacking any genuine or conscientious concern for the nation’s workforce.
Sydney
3 September 2014.
I have to grudgingly admit, i agree with him.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by JGK Wed 03 Sep 2014, 09:08
5.44pm on Wednesday 3rd September.
BD agrees with a Pinko icon. Wasn't that hard was it?
BD agrees with a Pinko icon. Wasn't that hard was it?
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by embee Wed 03 Sep 2014, 13:32
The pinkos could always have just voted to get rid of the badly drawn up and not working MRRT and the associated welfare landmines they put with it ...rather than make the libs negotiate with loony Clive and the Pups
They let the Democrats farque up the GST
They need to learn they control the balance of power too
They let the Democrats farque up the GST
They need to learn they control the balance of power too
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by JGK Thu 04 Sep 2014, 02:48
John Madigan quits the DLP and is now sitting in the Senate as an independent.
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by Bradman Thu 04 Sep 2014, 03:51
JGK wrote:John Madigan quits the DLP and is now sitting in the Senate as an independent.
Wasn't he the only sitting member? Shades of Monty Python's "Popular Front".
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Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (XII)
by JGK Thu 04 Sep 2014, 04:27
Bradman wrote:JGK wrote:John Madigan quits the DLP and is now sitting in the Senate as an independent.
Wasn't he the only sitting member? Shades of Monty Python's "Popular Front".
There is some question about whether he is entitled to stay in Parliament given that he was elected predominantly on the basis of above the line preferences.
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Similar topics» Aus Federal Politics thread (VI)
» Aus Federal Politics thread (XI)
» Aus Federal Politics thread (II)
» Aus Federal Politics thread (III)
» Aus Federal Politics thread (XV)
» Aus Federal Politics thread (XI)
» Aus Federal Politics thread (II)
» Aus Federal Politics thread (III)
» Aus Federal Politics thread (XV)
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