Re: Who are world cricket's current GREAT players?

by JGK Wed 01 Apr 2009, 11:41

The One wrote:in the list of batsmen with the top 20 averages in odi cricket (min : 2000 runs) only tendulkar and hayden are openers

Means nothing. Batting as an opener is risk free. You are expected to throw the bat at everything and you are expected to fail quite a bit and you have 8 other guys behind you to do the hard work.

by SG Wed 01 Apr 2009, 11:47

You are expected to throw the bat at everything and you are expected to fail quite a bit and you have 8 other guys behind you to do the hard work.

Thats Gilly's career, right?

Not everyone has the luxury Gilly had throughout his career.

So if there is one bat who had it easiest at the top of order was Gilly. Probably thats why he was honest enough to admit that opening is easiest job in ODIs.

by Paul Keating Wed 01 Apr 2009, 11:48

L>T

That is all.

Thank you and good night.

by SG Wed 01 Apr 2009, 11:52

You are expected to throw the bat at everything and you are expected to fail quite a bit

This is not what some other ODI openers (Tendulkar, Jaya, Anwar, Kirsten) did in their careers.

However if you're talking about the likes of Sehwag, Hayden and Gilly, then its different issue.

by The One Wed 01 Apr 2009, 11:54

JGK wrote:
The One wrote:in the list of batsmen with the top 20 averages in odi cricket (min : 2000 runs) only tendulkar and hayden are openers

Means nothing. Batting as an opener is risk free. You are expected to throw the bat at everything and you are expected to fail quite a bit and you have 8 other guys behind you to do the hard work.

if you want pure brainless batting and are confident about the rest of your line-up, sure. not every team has a great middle order, so most openers also have to make big scores and not go all 'shahid afridi'

you also face the best opening bowlers at the only time they can move the ball around

by tac Wed 01 Apr 2009, 11:57

Fark this "brainless" batting tripe shits me . . . Gilly was a stroke player . . . maybe the most devastating ever . . . he wasn't a brainless batter even in ODIs where he had the green light

by Paul Keating Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:00

Somehow this is being considered an attack on SRT.

And like the Indian test team, people need to defend him by saying that the batting to come is dire when in fact it is strong.

FFS.

by tac Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:02

Yeah, Pete, the way subis can only defend themselves by running everyone else down is pretty sad . . .

by JGK Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:03

you also face the best opening bowlers at the only time they can move the ball around

When the ball is hardest and there are two people more than 30m from the bat.

by SG Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:06

And like the Indian test team, people need to defend him by saying that the batting to come is dire

It was for most of '90s, whether you like it or not.

And are you peeved that Lara isn't being mentioned even once in last 3-4 pages?

by JGK Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:19

Paul Keating wrote:L>T

That is all.

Thank you and good night.

Not in JAMODIs (at least).

by Brass Monkey Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:36

I'd warrant that opening in England and NZ is a damn sight harder than anywhere else in the world. Not sure they can be generalised of having an easy job.

by Hass Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:38

JGK wrote:
Paul Keating wrote:L>T

That is all.

Thank you and good night.

Not in JAMODIs (at least).

Agree with JGK. And that's not a slight on Lara, who was a very good one-day player. It's just praise for Tendulkar.

by *Buckaroo* Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:40

Brass Monkey wrote:I'd warrant that opening in England and NZ is a damn sight harder than anywhere else in the world. Not sure they can be generalised of having an easy job.

yes, opening is tougher when middle-order is vulnerable. I agree with you on this Danny sir.

by JGK Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:41

Brass Monkey wrote:I'd warrant that opening in England and NZ is a damn sight harder than anywhere else in the world. Not sure they can be generalised of having an easy job.

Have you seen the grounds in NZ? You only have to get some bat on it and it is four. The swinging white ball lasts about 3 overs these days (as opposed to the two white balls that were used in the 80s).

by Brass Monkey Wed 01 Apr 2009, 12:47

JGK wrote:Have you seen the grounds in NZ? You only have to get some bat on it and it is four. The swinging white ball lasts about 3 overs these days (as opposed to the two white balls that were used in the 80s).

Aye, true. But it still nibbles, if you only get a bit of the bat on it, it goes nowhere. Except between the keeper and gully.

by The One Wed 01 Apr 2009, 15:45

JGK wrote:
you also face the best opening bowlers at the only time they can move the ball around

When the ball is hardest and there are two people more than 30m from the bat.

not denying that sometimes it gives you the best conditions for hitting. but there are many times when it gives you the worst as well and the first 4-5 overs with a white ball affords swing in most matches. on the whole you might score quicker, but are also more likely to get out at the top

by JKLever Wed 01 Apr 2009, 15:52

Ryan Ten Doeschate.

by Henry Wed 01 Apr 2009, 16:27

He's made runs for everyone he's played for so far. Is he really rubbish like you've said in the past, JKL?

by JKLever Wed 01 Apr 2009, 16:33

Henry wrote:He's made runs for everyone he's played for so far. Is he really rubbish like you've said in the past, JKL?

County standard and nout more...

by Chivalry Augustus Wed 01 Apr 2009, 19:10

Ryan ten Doeschate:

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/44/44713/f_Batting_by_Team.html
http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/44/44713/f_Batting_by_Opponent.html

Typical that Nottinghamshire are about the only major county he's made a double figure score against - and he had to make that a triple figure 'un. One suspects his FC Bowling figures reveal very much the same story. Minnow basher extraordinaire, but a national hero in Netherlands. Or not...

by JKLever Wed 01 Apr 2009, 19:52

Very decent OD player nonetheless...

by Ash Wed 01 Apr 2009, 22:39

SG wrote:
You are expected to throw the bat at everything and you are expected to fail quite a bit and you have 8 other guys behind you to do the hard work.
Thats Gilly's career, right?

Not everyone has the luxury Gilly had throughout his career.

So if there is one bat who had it easiest at the top of order was Gilly. Probably thats why he was honest enough to admit that opening is easiest job in ODIs.

exactly. to suggest SRT or jaya were expected to fail quite a bit and had a pressure free role is ridiculous.

by philcric Wed 01 Apr 2009, 23:08

There's only one current great player.

Ian Bell.

But he is way ahead of his times. The future generations will mock us for not recognizing his greatness.

by taipan Wed 14 Nov 2012, 12:53

Henry wrote:I'd go with-

Could be great in 5-10 years-

Duminy (RSA)
Johnson (AUS)
Broad (ENG)
DeVilliers (RSA)
Ishant (IND)
Mendis (SL)
Hughes (Aus)
Taylor (WI)

Is there anyone else who could be considered great who isn't on those lists? And who of the 'almost greats' and 'could be greats' are likely to be 'certain greats' by the end of their careers?

Killed a lot of careers in one post

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