Who are world cricket's current GREAT players?

Of your ATG list I would say SRT and Murali. Kallis and Ponting are both greats, but ATG, I dunno.

In the almost great list, Pietersen and Chanders for me. Steyn- too early. Sehwag, we'll see. The others, not yet.

Also:

Henry wrote:Tendulkar and Muralitharan are certainties as all time greats. Kallis's all round record must make him a great of the game. He's likely to finish his career with around 13,000 runs and 350 wickets- Awesome and unparalled for an all rounder. Dravid is arguably India's second best ever batsman. Ponting is debatable because of his poor record on the Sub Continent, but if people are calling him Australia's second best batsman ever after Bradman then he must surely be a great.

He's behind SRT and Gavaskar for sure.

Kallis slow scoring?
His strike rate in the last test was 62.57

furriner wrote:Of your ATG list I would say SRT and Murali. Kallis and Ponting are both greats, but ATG, I dunno.

In the almost great list, Pietersen and Chanders for me. Steyn- too early. Sehwag, we'll see. The others, not yet.

Also:

Henry wrote:Tendulkar and Muralitharan are certainties as all time greats. Kallis's all round record must make him a great of the game. He's likely to finish his career with around 13,000 runs and 350 wickets- Awesome and unparalled for an all rounder. Dravid is arguably India's second best ever batsman. Ponting is debatable because of his poor record on the Sub Continent, but if people are calling him Australia's second best batsman ever after Bradman then he must surely be a great.

He's behind SRT and Gavaskar for sure.

How many tests has Pietersen played in as opposed to Steyn?

Demelza wrote:Kallis slow scoring?
His strike rate in the last test was 62.57

That's one game Demelza. Talk about clutching at straws.

My comment on Kallis was that he isn't a "greater" cricketer than Ponting and Ponting isn't an ATG in my view. Both are obviously "greats" of the modern game and Kallis would most likely be in an AT Saffie team.

Kallis' numbers are incredible, no doubt. And no doubt if I had seen live ATG's like Hammond maybe I wouldn't look at them with rose coloured glasses.

But having watched a lot of Kallis since he was 20 and playing for the team who had generally been the main challenger to Australia for the No 1 mantle, I can honestly say I have never worried about him as an opposition player in the way I would worry about a KP, a Freddie, a Sanga, a Viru or even a Smith or Steyne or Donald, let alone a SRT or Lara.

As someone noted above, it is all a bit subjective and of course I am naturally biased because of his relative underperformance against Oz.

I guess a similar claim could be made by Indian fans against Warne (or NZ fans about Sobers!) but then they would have seen enough of Warne's performances against other nations to realise his greatness. While I have often seen Kallis be obdurate, other than against England a couple of years ago I have rarely seen him dominate good sides.

Ponting is also a great.

Brass Monkey wrote:

Demelza wrote:Kallis slow scoring?
His strike rate in the last test was 62.57

That's one game Demelza. Talk about clutching at straws.

In the 2nd Test it was 53.14
In the 1st Test it was 61.36

JKLever wrote:Ponting is also a great.

A great what?

taipan wrote:

furriner wrote:Of your ATG list I would say SRT and Murali. Kallis and Ponting are both greats, but ATG, I dunno.

In the almost great list, Pietersen and Chanders for me. Steyn- too early. Sehwag, we'll see. The others, not yet.

Also:

Henry wrote:Tendulkar and Muralitharan are certainties as all time greats. Kallis's all round record must make him a great of the game. He's likely to finish his career with around 13,000 runs and 350 wickets- Awesome and unparalled for an all rounder. Dravid is arguably India's second best ever batsman. Ponting is debatable because of his poor record on the Sub Continent, but if people are calling him Australia's second best batsman ever after Bradman then he must surely be a great.

He's behind SRT and Gavaskar for sure.

How many tests has Pietersen played in as opposed to Steyn?

50 as opposed to 33, it says on cricinfo. Not sure about your point; however, to elaborate mine, I don't think Steyn is near 'almost great' status, it is too early in terms of his career to say that he brings the same edge to SA as Pietersen does to England, or Chanders to WI.

I reckon Steyne is THE most important player in the current Saffie team.

JGK wrote:I reckon Steyne is THE most important player in the current Saffie team.

It is a fair point, but arguable. I would think Smith or Kallis could be there as well.

In general, the words great and greatness are applied much too loosely, IMO. Steyn is a tremendous bowler, he may go down as a great, even an all time great for all I know. He is not yet 'almost great'.

SRT and Murali are ATGS. Kallis and Dravid are greats. Ponting is somewhere between the two groups. Pietersen and Chanders are 'almost greats'.

Ponting is an All-Time Great.

I do not consider his blip in India big enough to scrub him from All Time Great status. Pete Sampras never won the French Open (or even made the final) but there's no denying he is an All-Time Great in his sport.

Ricky Ponting moved to Number Three permanently in July 2001. Before that he'd played about 40 tests and was averaging in the low 40s. That average had taken a bit of a hit after his horror tour of India and we were wondering whether Ponting was going to live up to his potential.

Boy did he show us. His record at Number Three from July 2001 onwards reads:

87 matches
150 innings
8318 runs @ 63.01 with a strike rate of 62.56
30 hundreds and 32 fifties

Statistics aren't everything, but they do confirm what I've seen with my eyes over the past eight years - an All-Time Great batsman.

Ponting, as much as I really dislike him, is an ATG, no doubt about it. And Kallis is a great.

The people who exclude Murali because of his chucking, if it is considered a valid reason as officially he does not chuck, are justified IMO. Whether other bowlers would be able to take 800+ wickets if they chucked is immaterial as frankly no one knows (or will ever know hopefully).

Gareth Batty is a great.

Chris Lewis is a great.

Derek Pringle very definitely is a great.

if it is considered a valid reason as officially he does not chuck,

Murali should never be considered anything other than a chucker. The simple fact is that for the first part of his career he took wickets with an action that was illegal and provided him with unfair advantage. For reasons of expediency, cricket politics, power and money the rules were amended to accommodate the Sri Lankan national hero. He continues to take wickets with an action that provides him with an unfair advantage.

ponting, tendy, kallis, shiv and aquacker

Having looked at Dravid's stats, I think i'll revise my opinion on him being a great batsman. Against Australia and South Africa- Consistently the 2 strongest teams he has faced during his career, he has a combined average of 39. He averages almost 100 against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

For me it's Kallis>Dravid.

suspect VVS is the opposite...has done well against the better teams and hasn't cashed in against the minnows

dravid's problem is that he bats too slow against good bowling to make a big score. against attacks with at least one great bowler he has only 2 hundreds in 40-odd tests (148 in joburg, 180 in calcutta). i dont think he is going to be india's 3rd greatest batsman for too long, sehwag will probably go past him in the 'rankings' pretty soon

ON the occasion Punter has been faced with great attacks, in form, INdia with Kumble and singh or ENg in 05 he has struggled

Ponting did OK in the Ashes 2005 (he almost singlehandedly saved the OT test) and demolished mostly the same attack 18 months later in Aust. He has also piled on runs against Kumble in Australia.

He has also smashed the likes of South Africa (with Donald, Polly and Ntini) and has a superb record against Murali.

He's really only failed in India itself.

JGK wrote:and demolished mostly the same attack 18 months later in Aust.

In name maybe. Everyone knows it was a pea-hearted, half-fit and worthless attack founded on Duncan Fletcher's madness. Then later on he obviously had to deal with the might of James Anderson and Sajid Mahmood.

I nominate Chris Gayle as an all time ODI great.

Chris Gayle has scored 19 ODI hundreds which places him seventh on the all time list while he has played at least 50 less innings than most of the other players in the top 10.

He is also one of the most exciting players in the game today

Small grounds in the West Indies contribute to his runs

Poor attacks

Poor record in games that matter.

Gayle is not an ATG ODI player

If Tendulkar has one opener slot locked down then to partner him Gayle is behind Gilly, Anwar, Jaya, M Waugh, Ganguly and Hayden at least of those who've played in the last decade