Re: The UK General Election Thread (II)

by Basil Mon 10 May 2010, 20:39

It really is an unedifying sight to witness labour clinging to power by their fingertips. It's a decision, which I think they will very much regret before the year is out.

by JKLever Mon 10 May 2010, 21:53

vilkrang wrote:
JKLever wrote:Hague's got it pretty much spot on. You can either have a stable government with an elected PM and a referendum on AV or you can have an unstable rainbow government that is seen to stitch up England, a second unelected PM in a row and force through undemocratic electoral reform.

I'm no Tory lover but that should be that. The Tories would have a hell of a lot of material to work with in opposition.
I think that Clegg will go with the Tories but is just flirting with Labour in order to strengthen his bargaining position. The Tories might start to shit it and offer more if they think there is a chance they won't be in power, though in reality I really cannot see Labour enticing the Lib Dems with anything.

I'm of the opposite view, I think they'll prop up Labour.

Labour are power hungry and desperate to cling on. They've basically stitched up an electorate and made them dependent on state handouts so as to be frightened to vote Labour out and they'll offer up anything.

It can't be right that a party can put through reform on our electoral system to basically save themselves - they'll basically create a one party state and endless liblab coalitions. Now whichever way you swing politically is deeply unhealthy.

by JKLever Mon 10 May 2010, 22:02

Hello Prime Minister

The UK General Election Thread (II) - Page 19 David-Miliband-460b_997526c

by Basil Mon 10 May 2010, 22:04

Milliband (X2), Balls, Harman..............Dear God! jawdrop

by LeFromage Mon 10 May 2010, 22:10

JKLever wrote:Hello Prime Minister

That picture aside, in the interviews I've seen with him he's always come across as a reasonably decent sort. You know, for an MP...

Given Labour's uncanny ability to shoot themselves repeatedly in the foot (and more vital organs), I expect them to pick Harman or Ed Balls...

by Zat Mon 10 May 2010, 22:12

Is that fat grey-haired bloke having the tanty on Sky really Merlin?

He was effectively saying 'It's not going to happen the way I think it should, therefore it couldn't possibly be right, so I'm going to sook and cry until you stop talking.'

by beamer Mon 10 May 2010, 22:15

It looks like any Labour-Lib Dem agreement would need a 5-party coalition to create a majority, with the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish components insisting on avoiding cuts at the expense of England as a condition... could be very complicated and unpopular in England where the Tories, of course, do have a majority of seats.

The Lib Dems will lose a lot of favour as well by publicly playing the other parties off against each other like this, particularly if they land us with another unelected Labour PM - if that is to be the case then they must give us another immediate election once Brown steps down.

by Zat Mon 10 May 2010, 22:21

Why does the thought of a coalition in government frighten so many English people, when the same people are quite happy to have a coalition of various nations represent them in cricket?

by Merlin Mon 10 May 2010, 22:39

Frightening only because the LibDems are now looking to join forces with a party that the entire country rejected at the polls only because said party - NuLabour - have capitulated and are prepared to meet practically all the LibDem demands just so as to stay in government of the very same nation that rejected them 4 days ago.

Paradox or what?

And this is the same LibDem party who claimed pompously post-election that they would "put the country and not the party" first ...!!

Ironic or what?!

Oh well ... let the LibDems join up with NuLabour - it'll last 6 months tops ... before the sh!t hits the fan ..... and then the nation can decide once and for all who they really want to run the show!

PS - Appears Nick Clegg was flitting between Cameron (official and media attended) and then driving across town to secretly meet Brown (unofficial and no media attendance) ... rumbled by a roving reporter who spotted Cleggs car where it shouldn't have been Very Happy

.......nice reflection of strong "leadership" ...or what?!

by Zat Mon 10 May 2010, 22:58

Zat wrote:Is that fat grey-haired bloke having the tanty on Sky really Merlin?

He was effectively saying 'It's not going to happen the way I think it should, therefore it couldn't possibly be right, so I'm going to sook and cry until you stop talking.'

Merlin wrote: ... this is the same LibDem party who claimed pompously post-election that they would "put the country and not the party" first ...!!

Ironic or what?!

Oh well ... let the LibDems join up with NuLabour - it'll last 6 months tops ... before the sh!t hits the fan ..... and then the nation can decide once and for all who they really want to run the show!

by JKLever Mon 10 May 2010, 23:08

2305Harriet Harman will not enter the race to replace Gordon Brown as Labour leader, she announces on BBC Two's Newsnight.

Huzzah!

by JKLever Mon 10 May 2010, 23:12

Dello wrote:
JKLever wrote:Hello Prime Minister

That picture aside, in the interviews I've seen with him he's always come across as a reasonably decent sort. You know, for an MP...

Given Labour's uncanny ability to shoot themselves repeatedly in the foot (and more vital organs), I expect them to pick Harman or Ed Balls...

Yeah, I like Milliband - he's a decent sort. Could live with that...

Just need Ed Balls to rule himself out now. I think if you're a die-hard Tory you want Ed Balls as prime minister.

by JKLever Mon 10 May 2010, 23:16

Zat wrote:Why does the thought of a coalition in government frighten so many English people, when the same people are quite happy to have a coalition of various nations represent them in cricket?

A double party coalition doesn't frighten me at all. However a 5 party stitch up where the SNP & Plaid Cymru get the double whammy of protecting their own from the recession whilst making the English pay for it AND of course loving the resentment that will come from it is doomed to failure from the outset.

by DJ_Smerk Mon 10 May 2010, 23:39

JKLever wrote:
Zat wrote:Why does the thought of a coalition in government frighten so many English people, when the same people are quite happy to have a coalition of various nations represent them in cricket?

A double party coalition doesn't frighten me at all. However a 5 party stitch up where the SNP & Plaid Cymru get the double whammy of protecting their own from the recession whilst making the English pay for it AND of course loving the resentment that will come from it is doomed to failure from the outset.

by JKLever Tue 11 May 2010, 00:04

Whats wrong with this statement? You think SNP/PC will cut a deal and accept the same cuts as everyone else?

by Allan D Tue 11 May 2010, 00:06

Totally agree with JKL and of course it would be vulnerable to internal rebellions as well as bye-election defeats Also Labour can no more deliver PR than the Tories can as the Labour Left despise PR (as it would mean the end of socialism) as much as the Tory Right does and would be bound to oppose it. Consequently another election (held under the present system) within 6 months which would return a thumping Tory majority would be a racing certainty.

If Cameron were solely guided by the interests of his party (as apparently Clegg is, contrary to his statements at the weekend) he would break off all talks with the Lib Dems and tell them to go ahead and deal with Labour, confident that he would be able to dish them both in October or November.

Broon's eccentric statement this afternoon simply shows the level of his detachment from reality and psychological malady as he squats in his bunker. It was lthe equivalent of Hitler offering to shoot himself so Doenitz and Speer (Johnson & Miliband) can do a deal with the West and save the Third Reich for posterity. No.10 is no longer the locus of the centre of power in Britain but has become a refuge for the clinically insane.

by JKLever Tue 11 May 2010, 00:22

Allan D wrote:Consequently another election (held under the present system) within 6 months which would return a thumping Tory majority would be a racing certainty.

Even under AV, if they managed to get that passed. To remove the current lot from power a disgruntled voter only has one choice - Tory. The Tories would not lose floating voters to the Libs, it would be a rout.

If I was Cameron i'd tell them go for it. The conservatives will be one of the most powerful oppositions ever, just think of the crap they've got to throw at both Clegg/Brown & both parties.

by LeFromage Tue 11 May 2010, 00:25

beamer wrote:

The Lib Dems will lose a lot of favour as well by publicly playing the other parties off against each other like this, particularly if they land us with another unelected Labour PM - if that is to be the case then they must give us another immediate election once Brown steps down.

Lose-lose for the Libs, though. They'll also lose a lot of favour amongst their core voters (all five of the them) by bum-chumming up to the hated Tories. It's a dilly of a pickle.

Best thing for them would've been to stay out of it, let the Tories make an incompetent fist of a minority government for a few months, then pick up a couple more seats at the next election by virtue of being neither the now-useless Tories or not-forgiven Labour.

by LeFromage Tue 11 May 2010, 00:27

JKLever wrote:
2305Harriet Harman will not enter the race to replace Gordon Brown as Labour leader, she announces on BBC Two's Newsnight.

Huzzah!

Well, that's disappointing...

by Ash Tue 11 May 2010, 00:33

wow ... that boulton video is just shocking. seemed a bit drunk tbh.

by JKLever Tue 11 May 2010, 00:34

I think there's a bit of history there!

Alastair Campbell is a bit of an arse.

by Mick Sawyer Tue 11 May 2010, 00:35

Lose-lose for the Libs, though. They'll also lose a lot of favour amongst their core voters (all five of the them) by bum-chumming up to the hated Tories. It's a dilly of a pickle.

They'll never be in a better position to influence policy than by staying out of any coalition surely? Let the Tories form a minority government and then cherry pick legislation as they choose without pissing off their base and any newly won friends.

by Allan D Tue 11 May 2010, 00:37

JKLever wrote:I think there's a bit of history there!

Alastair Campbell is a bit of an arse.

Both of them are Blairites. Boulton is married to Anji Hunter, Blair's former office-manager. Squabbling in the nursery.

by Ash Tue 11 May 2010, 00:41

JKLever wrote:
Alastair Campbell is a bit of an arse.

but he played him like a fiddle...

by Allan D Tue 11 May 2010, 00:47

Dello wrote:
beamer wrote:

The Lib Dems will lose a lot of favour as well by publicly playing the other parties off against each other like this, particularly if they land us with another unelected Labour PM - if that is to be the case then they must give us another immediate election once Brown steps down.

Lose-lose for the Libs, though. They'll also lose a lot of favour amongst their core voters (all five of the them) by bum-chumming up to the hated Tories. It's a dilly of a pickle.

Best thing for them would've been to stay out of it, let the Tories make an incompetent fist of a minority government for a few months, then pick up a couple more seats at the next election by virtue of being neither the now-useless Tories or not-forgiven Labour.

Except the Lib-Dems would have earned the tag of "eunuchs in the harem", always willing to observe and criticise the exercise of power but incapable of participating even when the opportunity is offered. I think Clegg was ready to seal a deal with the Tories today but he came up against the stumbling block of his MPs, some of whom, principally in the West Country, hold onto their seats against a Conservative opponent by squeezing the Labour vote. Clearly this would be much more difficult to do in the case where the Lib Dems supported a Conservative government and, more especially, if they were in a coalition and so they have forced him into these pantomime negotiations with Labour in a bid to cover their backsides. So much for the national interest!

The fact is that the Lib Dems will offend a fair share of their voters whichever side they pick. A recent survey showed that if Lib Dem voters had a second preference 41% would vote Labour 36% would vote Conservative.

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