Re: The Football Thread - 2011/12

by PeterCS Tue 06 Sep 2011, 23:13

aww da poor iddy-biddy muwtimiwionaire dears!

Scared by da nasty-wasty big pubwic expectation are we? *pats them all on the head*

by PeterCS Tue 06 Sep 2011, 23:15

What happened to professionalism and pride in playing for the country, Mr L?

by LeFromage Tue 06 Sep 2011, 23:20

JKLever wrote:Is every other country the same as us? It seems as if we don't win 5-0 playing like Brazil people are never satisfied here.

Not that i'm saying it was a great performance as i've only seen the goal, but I think Gary Nev as much as I don't like him was spot on. The English public almost frighten the side with unrealistic expectation.

I'm not sure it was an unrealistic expectation to not get outplayed at home by a team ranked below Zimbabwe and the Faroe Islands.

That was so poor. I guess we'll qualify for the finals again - yay - but stink the place out once more and return home early in shame - boo.

by skully Wed 07 Sep 2011, 00:37

Good effort by the Roos overnight to beat the Saudis in the desert heat - 3-1

by G.Wood Wed 07 Sep 2011, 03:34

skully wrote:Good effort by the Roos overnight to beat the Saudis in the desert heat - 3-1

aye. it was Warne to Beer better than the crappiest crap in the history of crap they dished out on Friday

by skully Wed 07 Sep 2011, 05:00

Aye. They believed their own publicity and expected to win 10-0 without trying. The War Elephants (WTF?? Shocked

) had different ideas.

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 Sep 2011, 08:54

Dello wrote:
JKLever wrote:Is every other country the same as us? It seems as if we don't win 5-0 playing like Brazil people are never satisfied here.

Not that i'm saying it was a great performance as i've only seen the goal, but I think Gary Nev as much as I don't like him was spot on. The English public almost frighten the side with unrealistic expectation.

I'm not sure it was an unrealistic expectation to not get outplayed at home by a team ranked below Zimbabwe and the Faroe Islands.

That was so poor. I guess we'll qualify for the finals again - yay - but stink the place out once more and return home early in shame - boo.

Pretty much this, Lever. Everytime I turned over it was shinkick there, 12 year old girl's controlling ability here, not comfortable on the ball in the slightest there, hospital ball here, no forward skills - so turn and pass back with your one foot there, 10 yard pass goes awry here. It was dire, to say the very least. Get off their backs? Maybe they should play some semblance of football befitting of their gigantic weekly wages.

by JKLever Wed 07 Sep 2011, 12:26

I've long since accepted England aren't that great at football and that club football reigns supreme here.

Considering how sh!t technically we are, a SF and a couple of QF's since the 80's is a fair effort imo.

If for some strange reason we start teaching our kids proper skills instead of seeing how fit and strong they are and we don't produce.... perhaps i'd start giving a crap? shrug

All I know is if my club side won 1-0 without playing that well but were top of the league you would take it and move on. Yet every performance is dissected endlessly like it should be the perfect performance time after time.

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 Sep 2011, 12:32

Maybe Lever, but I suppose my point is they should be rewarded like the multi-millionaires they are should they not be able to pass the ball, to control said bad passes or even semi-OK ones and cannot do anything with their wrong foot. It's like watching drunk people play on ice. The match was godawful - literally I've watched some better football in Div 2 this year. To my mind, it's a sham. But I suppose incredibly moot. As we'll reach the finals and play some turgid, bordering on smash-mouth crap and flunk out like the shite we are.

by LeFromage Wed 07 Sep 2011, 12:53

JKLever wrote:I've long since accepted England aren't that great at football and that club football reigns supreme here.

Considering how sh!t technically we are, a SF and a couple of QF's since the 80's is a fair effort imo.

If for some strange reason we start teaching our kids proper skills instead of seeing how fit and strong they are and we don't produce.... perhaps i'd start giving a crap?

All I know is if my club side won 1-0 without playing that well but were top of the league you would take it and move on. Yet every performance is dissected endlessly like it should be the perfect performance time after time.

But they were outplayed, out-passed, out-techniqued by a team whose players have come through exactly the same system, play in the English leagues - four of them were even born and raised in England and qualified for the Taffs through some bullsh!t grandaddy technicality.

I don't disagree that the quality of coaching in the UK is appalling, but that's not really a valid excuse for England getting out-performed by a suburb of England.

by Henry Wed 07 Sep 2011, 12:56

So why did it happen then? Cappello? England picking the same sh*t, overrated players?

It's funny how at the time most people didn't like Sven, but as things have turned out, he did a damn good job with the players he had.

I reckon we miss Beckham. Say what you want about his football ability, he was our talisman, gave 100% everytime, and could lift the other players.

by JKLever Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:06

Dello wrote:
But they were outplayed, out-passed, out-techniqued by a team whose players have come through exactly the same system, play in the English leagues - four of them were even born and raised in England and qualified for the Taffs through some bullsh!t grandaddy technicality.

The same team who England were better at all those attributes as in Cardiff? We played poorly, we won, move on imo.

A bit like Cardiff in t'Ashes 2009.

by LeFromage Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:14

Well, the "creative" midfield was Barry (slow, sidways passer), Lampard (slow, best days long gone) and James Milner (never been a player - he's just a headless workhorse).

So, in that respect, it was hardly a surprise that England were unable to retain any meaningful possession, let alone bring some incisive creativity to the final third.

The responsibility for making something happen fell on the wide forwards, Young and Downing who A) didn't get enough service due to the craptitude of the midfield and B) were lower-table drecksmiths Aston Villa's non-conquering widemen last season. So perhaps it was asking too much to expect any significant quality out of them.

Beckham a talisman? How about a millstone? Got himself sent off against Argentina in the 98 WC as England lost. Annoymous at Euro 2000 as England went out at the group stages. A liability at the 2002 WC, as he was trying to protect his damaged foot and ducking out of tackles left, right and centre - an act which led to Brazil's opening goal in the Q/F defeat. Euro 2004 - hopeless. Blamed his move to Real and change of regime for making him too muscular and heavy to move around properly. Missed a penalty in the shoot-out defeat to Portugal. 2006 WC, a peripheral figure again, as England's "golden generation" once more struggled to impress - the sluggishly slow Beckham resigning the captaincy at the end of another failure against Portugal in which he hobbled off as the going got tough.

And then we didn't qualify for the 2008 Euros.

by LeFromage Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:16

JKLever wrote:
Dello wrote:
But they were outplayed, out-passed, out-techniqued by a team whose players have come through exactly the same system, play in the English leagues - four of them were even born and raised in England and qualified for the Taffs through some bullsh!t grandaddy technicality.

The same team who England were better at all those attributes as in Cardiff? We played poorly, we won, move on imo.

A bit like Cardiff in t'Ashes 2009.

I think everyone has moved on. It's been a long time since I gave a sh!t about international football, regardless of who is playing.

But in terms of a little post-match discussion, "Win. Done." isn't great forumming.

by JKLever Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:28

(in Blackadder voice) '' Well, possibly ''

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:29

That's it Dello. It's not like I'm going around shouting it in their faces. I would, but I couldn't afford the travel. I was just being truthful, as I see it. There was nothing industrious about us whatsoever. Considering they're well practised individuals who have nothing to do but play football, one would hope they would have some semblance of nous, talent, hunger. I could've done 5 minutes on that pitch and not looked out of place, which is possibly the biggest insult I could dish.

by JKLever Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:32

I think it's the whole circus around the national team that pisses me off. We're either the greatest side to walk the earth or we couldn't beat the Zimbabwean womens XI.

by Henry Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:38

We flippin murdered 'em.......

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:40

Can the Zimbabwe Women's XI press our midfield for more than 2 mins at a time? Can they keep tight on the wingers? Can they play half decent through-balls to a semi-nippy forward? If yes then they have a shot

by krikri Wed 07 Sep 2011, 17:28

Henry wrote:It's funny how at the time most people didn't like Sven, but as things have turned out, he did a damn good job with the players he had.

Sven was diabolical. Performance after performance was utter sh!t. Apart from that Germany game, what did he do? His masterplan for world footballing domination seemed to be score an early goal and then defend until the end of the game. That's one of the reasons why Euro 2004 was such a disaster. It's what we did against France and Portugal, unsurprisingly the two teams we lost to, he had no other plan, especially against the better teams. It's what we did against practically everyone in 2002 as well? Sweden, Argentina, Brazil. You can't start defending from your own 6 yard line against half decent teams, inviting attack after attack for the majority of the game and hope to stop them scoring.

It's a joke, especially the money he was on. Sven was on £5,000,000 a year to come up with that? Goes back to what Dan is saying, over paid for what they deliver. If people are over estimating the ability of the players and putting too much expectation on them then they should stop getting paid so much for something they clearly aren't.

Not to mention Theo Walcott in 2006. Taking an unknown quantity to the world cup seemingly on nothing other than Wenger telling Sven that he was a great talent. He was probably just trying to get Sven to add some credibility to the big price tag (for a practical nobody) that he paid for someone who still hasn't lived up to it. The worst part of all was that he took such a gamble and wasn't even confident enough to play him.

So the conclusion is, he's either useless or he was too high on Nancy's pu$$y fumes. If he was that good, would he be slaving away in Leicester? He's useless.

Dello's right about Beckham too. He was just a slightly better than average player who was hyped up by the media due to his PR stunts and intense desire to build a global brand for his bank account, rather than doing anything that would be for the good of our footballing success. To call him a qunt would be too kind.

by Brass Monkey Wed 07 Sep 2011, 18:15

Aye, I didn't have much time for Sven and it's right what you've said definitely. But, I could say the same for most of the England coaches in my 25 years of watching. Taylor, McClaren, Keegan - dross. Which sort of makes me think that maybe it's the players. But I don't think that, not throughout my support of them.

It's only recently where I feel we've certainly slipped behind the rest. We've been technically inferior in the past, but there's been quite a few shards of individual brilliance along with usually being stronger than the opposition that seemed to keep us up with the rest of the pack.

I like Capello though, I don't know why in ways - he has Champs League bias and he f*cked it at the WC. But we don't quite seem to have the players at the mo.

by krikri Wed 07 Sep 2011, 19:13

Brass Monkey wrote:Aye, I didn't have much time for Sven and it's right what you've said definitely. But, I could say the same for most of the England coaches in my 25 years of watching. Taylor, McClaren, Keegan - dross. Which sort of makes me think that maybe it's the players. But I don't think that, not throughout my support of them.

Yeah, we've had some players capable of winning a tournament I think. I'm not quite sure it was a 'golden generation' like the media led most people to believe, but they should have at least put in better performances, if even not winning a tournament somewhere in all that time.

1996 will probably be the closest we'll get to a major tournament win for a long while. Actually went out to play football that year too instead of defend, defend, defend.

by beamer Wed 07 Sep 2011, 19:20

Look at the clubs our players represent, surely compares favourably with every squad bar maybe Spain, if you ignore the Championship reserve keepers.

The main problem is that so many of our "golden" generation are twats of the highest order who don't give their best for their country because it's not where they earn their millions and they don't like being booed when they fail to perform. They may well pass this attitude onto the next generation as well. Also we don't develop enough players who are comfortable on the ball due to the "winning is everything" mentality at lower levels, our top clubs tend to go abroad to fill the more technical roles.

It may be hard to get fully behind this current England team, but for the country as a whole, winning the World Cup again would be like the Ashes, cricket and rugby World Cups, a British Wimbledon champion and a few dozen Olympic gold medals, all added together. And squared. And doubled again for good measure. So let's hope they can address these problems so we get to see it one day!

by LeFromage Wed 07 Sep 2011, 19:58

krikri wrote:

Not to mention Theo Walcott in 2006. Taking an unknown quantity to the world cup seemingly on nothing other than Wenger telling Sven that he was a great talent. He was probably just trying to get Sven to add some credibility to the big price tag (for a practical nobody) that he paid for someone who still hasn't lived up to it.

£5 million up front. With add ons (based on appearances) up to £12 million - which Arsenal were able to renegotiate down to £9 million once Saints went into administration.

34 goals and 25 assists from a winger - including 10 goals in the Champions League (and goals in both legs of this season's victory over Udinese in the qualifying round, allegedly worth £20+ million) - a more than decent return on their investment for a player who, should they choose to sell in the summer if he does a Nasri and refuses to sign a new contract, they can expect the bids for to start at £25 million.

On the face of it, it was an odd selection from Sven - but then the alternatives were shite like Defoe and Bent, so why not roll the dice?

by krikri Wed 07 Sep 2011, 21:38

The worst part was that he refused to roll the dice after having picked them up.

If you pick a (at the time) nobody and parachute them into the squad then surely you believe they are good enough to play and actually do something?

I just don't understand his thought process on that, especially as we were sh!t throughout every game.

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